Comments on: The Big Three http://whatever.scalzi.com/2007/10/23/the-big-three/ DEVISING A SYSTEM FOR REMEMBERING EVERYTHING Sun, 21 Mar 2010 00:57:18 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Specht http://whatever.scalzi.com/2007/10/23/the-big-three/#comment-157796 Specht Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:05:41 +0000 http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=66#comment-157796 Today I found this blog and are amazed by the quality of information posted here. Nowadays are very few blogs that offer quality of information ,we subscribed to your blog via RSS and we look forward the following articles Today I found this blog and are amazed by the quality of information posted here. Nowadays are very few blogs that offer quality of information ,we subscribed to your blog via RSS and we look forward the following articles

]]> By: Kostas Panagopoulos http://whatever.scalzi.com/2007/10/23/the-big-three/#comment-1709 Kostas Panagopoulos Sat, 19 Jul 2008 13:54:22 +0000 http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=66#comment-1709 My apologies to Mrs S. Genges, her misinformation comes very probably from the fact she does not live in Greece, so she can not know how things are here. I wrote this, just to inform all the professional writers in your site that they must not be under the illusion to get famous by publishing in Greece. It would not be fair to them....Would it? My apologies to Mrs S. Genges, her misinformation comes very probably from the fact she does not live in Greece, so she can not know how things are here. I wrote this, just to inform all the professional writers in your site that they must not be under the illusion to get famous by publishing in Greece.
It would not be fair to them….Would it?

]]> By: Kostas Panagopoulos http://whatever.scalzi.com/2007/10/23/the-big-three/#comment-1708 Kostas Panagopoulos Sat, 19 Jul 2008 13:01:12 +0000 http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=66#comment-1708 Response to Sarah G, #64 This lady is claiming, in a very jovial tone, that she is "writing in ENNEA, a magazine in Greece with200.000 readers. Realizing that the people writing in this site are well informed people about sf, I think it is better to avoid any misunderstandings. It is an absolute illusion to believe there exists, here in Greece, a sf magazine with such fabulous numbers of readers. First, ENNEA is NO SF magazine. It is a COMIC magazine, publishing just ONE sf story in its pages. To his chief redactor's credit, I must admit he is doing some efforts to promote sf in Greece. One of them was to persist in publishing the sf story when many of the readers complained that it should be abolished and replaced by more comics. For some reason that I do not understand, the stories published now are shorter than 2 or 3 years ago. But there is always an sf story. Second, ENNEA has not its own circulation numbers, so as Interzone, The Big Three or other sf magazines. ENNEA is a weekly magazine that comes out every Wednesday FOR FREE with the daily journal ELEFTHEROTYPIA. This means the journal costs its normal prize and not more because of ENNEA, which you get any way if you buy the newspaper FOR FREE. I imagine that , in these conditions, it is difficult to evaluate accurately the circulation of ENNEA. Imagine you sell Asimov's or whatever sf magazine with the New Yorker or Times FOR FREE... ELEFTHEROTYPIA might reach the mentioned numbers of readers, as it is one of the daily journals with the highest circulation rates in Greece. As a sf reader, I would be delighted if there was a great sf magazine in Greece. Unfortunately, there is no such thing for the moment. Response to Sarah G, #64
This lady is claiming, in a very jovial tone, that she is “writing in ENNEA, a magazine in Greece with200.000 readers.
Realizing that the people writing in this site are well informed people about sf, I think it is better to avoid any misunderstandings. It is an absolute illusion to believe there exists, here in Greece, a sf magazine with such fabulous numbers of readers.
First, ENNEA is NO SF magazine. It is a COMIC magazine, publishing just ONE sf story in its pages. To his chief redactor’s credit, I must admit he is doing some efforts to promote sf in Greece. One of them was to persist in publishing the sf story when many of the readers complained that it should be abolished and replaced by more comics. For some reason that I do not understand, the stories published now are shorter than 2 or 3 years ago. But there is always an sf story.
Second, ENNEA has not its own circulation numbers, so as Interzone, The Big Three or other sf magazines. ENNEA is a weekly magazine that comes out every Wednesday FOR FREE with the daily journal ELEFTHEROTYPIA. This means the journal costs its normal prize and not more because of ENNEA, which you get any way if you buy the newspaper FOR FREE.
I imagine that , in these conditions, it is difficult to evaluate accurately the circulation of ENNEA. Imagine you sell Asimov’s or whatever sf magazine with the New Yorker or Times FOR FREE…
ELEFTHEROTYPIA might reach the mentioned numbers of readers, as it is one of the daily journals with the highest circulation rates in Greece.
As a sf reader, I would be delighted if there was a great sf magazine in Greece. Unfortunately, there is no such thing for the moment.

]]> By: Stacey http://whatever.scalzi.com/2007/10/23/the-big-three/#comment-1707 Stacey Mon, 24 Dec 2007 13:13:33 +0000 http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=66#comment-1707 The true Big Three were Parish, McHale and Bird. Please change this title. The true Big Three were Parish, McHale and Bird. Please change this title.

]]> By: Jonathan Laden http://whatever.scalzi.com/2007/10/23/the-big-three/#comment-1706 Jonathan Laden Sat, 01 Dec 2007 08:48:37 +0000 http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=66#comment-1706 It sometimes seems in magazine publishing that you can either make money or invest in growing your base to make money in the future, but you don't get to do both. Dover, for all that it's been a wonderful haven for two of the big three for decades, has been more in the mode of milking the cash cow than investing in growing the base. F&SF has fought the kind of entrepreneur-on-a-shoestring battle that I both love and recognize as essentially tilting at windmills. Meanwhile, magazines such as American Heritage, Home & Garden, and Business 2.0 are shutting their presses because circ of 300,000+ isn't automatically profitable enough to bother any more. Dedicated, savvy investment could undoubtedly create an SF mag with six figure circulation once again. The return on investment probably wouldn't (financially) justify the effort. It sometimes seems in magazine publishing that you can either make money or invest in growing your base to make money in the future, but you don’t get to do both. Dover, for all that it’s been a wonderful haven for two of the big three for decades, has been more in the mode of milking the cash cow than investing in growing the base. F&SF has fought the kind of entrepreneur-on-a-shoestring battle that I both love and recognize as essentially tilting at windmills.
Meanwhile, magazines such as American Heritage, Home & Garden, and Business 2.0 are shutting their presses because circ of 300,000+ isn’t automatically profitable enough to bother any more.
Dedicated, savvy investment could undoubtedly create an SF mag with six figure circulation once again. The return on investment probably wouldn’t (financially) justify the effort.

]]> By: dave hutchinson http://whatever.scalzi.com/2007/10/23/the-big-three/#comment-1704 dave hutchinson Mon, 12 Nov 2007 21:11:13 +0000 http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=66#comment-1704 I want to apologise for that rather rude and crass post; I meant to post something vaguely humourous about the way the nuts and bolts of submitting to magazines has changed since my day, and it just came out all wrong. I'm mortified that I rode in here and did that. Once again, many apologies. I want to apologise for that rather rude and crass post; I meant to post something vaguely humourous about the way the nuts and bolts of submitting to magazines has changed since my day, and it just came out all wrong. I’m mortified that I rode in here and did that. Once again, many apologies.

]]> By: dave hutchinson http://whatever.scalzi.com/2007/10/23/the-big-three/#comment-1705 dave hutchinson Sun, 11 Nov 2007 00:45:54 +0000 http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=66#comment-1705 I'm sorry to be contrarian in my first post here, but if <i>Asimov's</i> required me to have my story chiselled into slabs of marble and then delivered to them one at a time by UPS, I might still be tempted. Does a potential magazine sale justify having a printer? Maybe, maybe not. When I first started trying to publish you did the work on a manual typewriter, kept the carbons (or shelled out a small fortune for photocopying) and sent the magazine the original. So submitting on paper doesn't seem such a big deal to me, and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to remember SciFiction requiring an initial submission of paper copies. I'm not au fait with The Big Three, but from your comments I suspect they're in denial and living on past glories. I think there may still be an important niche for them, but my impression from what I've read here and elsewhere is that they're somewhat behind the game right now in terms of marketing. I’m sorry to be contrarian in my first post here, but if Asimov’s required me to have my story chiselled into slabs of marble and then delivered to them one at a time by UPS, I might still be tempted. Does a potential magazine sale justify having a printer? Maybe, maybe not. When I first started trying to publish you did the work on a manual typewriter, kept the carbons (or shelled out a small fortune for photocopying) and sent the magazine the original. So submitting on paper doesn’t seem such a big deal to me, and I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong but I seem to remember SciFiction requiring an initial submission of paper copies.

I’m not au fait with The Big Three, but from your comments I suspect they’re in denial and living on past glories. I think there may still be an important niche for them, but my impression from what I’ve read here and elsewhere is that they’re somewhat behind the game right now in terms of marketing.

]]> By: Ted http://whatever.scalzi.com/2007/10/23/the-big-three/#comment-1703 Ted Tue, 06 Nov 2007 23:51:19 +0000 http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=66#comment-1703 Some interesting comments from Paolo Bacigalupi, who has worked for a magazine and has experience with ways to retain and attract subscribers, over at <a href="http://windupstories.com/" rel="nofollow">his blog</a>. Some interesting comments from Paolo Bacigalupi, who has worked for a magazine and has experience with ways to retain and attract subscribers, over at his blog.

]]> By: Sean http://whatever.scalzi.com/2007/10/23/the-big-three/#comment-1702 Sean Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:36:03 +0000 http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=66#comment-1702 Thirty or forty years ago, if you wanted science fiction or fantasy, there were, for the most part, only magazines and books, and the occasional film. SF&F were for special occasions. Since then, science fiction and fantasy have increasingly been found in computer games, console games, videos, DVDs, blockbuster movies, cable/satellite television channels, web-sites etc etc. It's not just new stuff being generated: the old stuff, which once would have been hard to find, is easily available these days and provides another way for SF&F fans to spend their money rather than on magazines. In other words, SF&F is no longer hard to find. As magazines don't have the near-monopoly that they once had on SF&F content, it's no surprise that sales have decreased overall. Thirty or forty years ago, if you wanted science fiction or fantasy, there were, for the most part, only magazines and books, and the occasional film. SF&F were for special occasions. Since then, science fiction and fantasy have increasingly been found in computer games, console games, videos, DVDs, blockbuster movies, cable/satellite television channels, web-sites etc etc. It’s not just new stuff being generated: the old stuff, which once would have been hard to find, is easily available these days and provides another way for SF&F fans to spend their money rather than on magazines.

In other words, SF&F is no longer hard to find. As magazines don’t have the near-monopoly that they once had on SF&F content, it’s no surprise that sales have decreased overall.

]]> By: Frank Ludlow http://whatever.scalzi.com/2007/10/23/the-big-three/#comment-1701 Frank Ludlow Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:04:21 +0000 http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=66#comment-1701 Very interesting posts, and an interesting iniital blog John. Thanks. I think the point was made before, but mainly only in passing, when compared to the detail we have discussed readership figures for print magazines. I keep a close eye on the Albedo One site, and hits do NOT equate to readers. Again, this has been said in passing, but it's worth re-emphasising. People click through to Albedo all the time, but if you have the right stats software you can see the length of time they stay. On average, not long enough to "read" one story. So they're not real readers for people's stories. I don't know how this compares to other sites that are more dedicated to presenting online fiction, but I'm sure there's a significant gap between hits in general and hits that stay long enough to be considered readers. If Albedo wanted to include hits only, we could calculate a huge visitors figure, but that wouldnt really be telling the truth! I'm still in my twenties, and my eye sight is pretty good, but reading on a screen is tiring, much more so than on paper, so I tend to print out stories I get online. Maybe this new paper screen technology will improve the situation. One more point while I'm waffling: many non-English genre magazines in Europe are selling a LOT of magazines, more so than the Big 3. And their production quality is a lot higher. This might have something to do with it. Very interesting posts, and an interesting iniital blog John. Thanks.

I think the point was made before, but mainly only in passing, when compared to the detail we have discussed readership figures for print magazines. I keep a close eye on the Albedo One site, and hits do NOT equate to readers. Again, this has been said in passing, but it’s worth re-emphasising. People click through to Albedo all the time, but if you have the right stats software you can see the length of time they stay. On average, not long enough to “read” one story. So they’re not real readers for people’s stories.

I don’t know how this compares to other sites that are more dedicated to presenting online fiction, but I’m sure there’s a significant gap between hits in general and hits that stay long enough to be considered readers. If Albedo wanted to include hits only, we could calculate a huge visitors figure, but that wouldnt really be telling the truth!

I’m still in my twenties, and my eye sight is pretty good, but reading on a screen is tiring, much more so than on paper, so I tend to print out stories I get online. Maybe this new paper screen technology will improve the situation.

One more point while I’m waffling: many non-English genre magazines in Europe are selling a LOT of magazines, more so than the Big 3. And their production quality is a lot higher. This might have something to do with it.

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