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	<title>Comments on: Dragon Magazine Wants to Own Your Ass, Cheap</title>
	<atom:link href="http://whatever.scalzi.com/2007/11/28/dragon-magazine-wants-to-own-your-ass-cheap/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2007/11/28/dragon-magazine-wants-to-own-your-ass-cheap/</link>
	<description>DEVISING A SYSTEM FOR REMEMBERING EVERYTHING</description>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2007/11/28/dragon-magazine-wants-to-own-your-ass-cheap/#comment-4918</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2007 14:06:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=159#comment-4918</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s the old link for article submissions; nothing about fiction there that I can see.

Alex.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s the old link for article submissions; nothing about fiction there that I can see.</p>
<p>Alex.</p>
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		<title>By: John Scalzi</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2007/11/28/dragon-magazine-wants-to-own-your-ass-cheap/#comment-4917</link>
		<dc:creator>John Scalzi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2007 13:42:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=159#comment-4917</guid>
		<description>They didn&#039;t remove it, they changed the URL. I&#039;ll update the link.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They didn&#8217;t remove it, they changed the URL. I&#8217;ll update the link.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2007/11/28/dragon-magazine-wants-to-own-your-ass-cheap/#comment-4916</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2007 13:14:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=159#comment-4916</guid>
		<description>Still no response to queries, but they seem to have removed the fiction guidelines from their site.

Alex.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Still no response to queries, but they seem to have removed the fiction guidelines from their site.</p>
<p>Alex.</p>
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		<title>By: Shawn Struck</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2007/11/28/dragon-magazine-wants-to-own-your-ass-cheap/#comment-4915</link>
		<dc:creator>Shawn Struck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:13:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=159#comment-4915</guid>
		<description>I think the most sigh-inducing response has been &quot; This hubbub about retaining one&#039;s IP for a piece of fiction is largely just so much wind because, frankly, the large majority of what&#039;s published in there as fiction wouldn&#039;t be able to reach any higher anyway. &quot;, followed by

&quot;Don&#039;t want to worry about your best work and ideas getting lost because you sign them over in order to get work with Dragon?

Don&#039;t submit your best work and ideas.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the most sigh-inducing response has been &#8221; This hubbub about retaining one&#8217;s IP for a piece of fiction is largely just so much wind because, frankly, the large majority of what&#8217;s published in there as fiction wouldn&#8217;t be able to reach any higher anyway. &#8220;, followed by</p>
<p>&#8220;Don&#8217;t want to worry about your best work and ideas getting lost because you sign them over in order to get work with Dragon?</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t submit your best work and ideas.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: John C. Bunnell</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2007/11/28/dragon-magazine-wants-to-own-your-ass-cheap/#comment-4914</link>
		<dc:creator>John C. Bunnell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 17:41:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=159#comment-4914</guid>
		<description>Ken@175:

I&#039;d remembered reading about Paizo taking steps to compensate subscribers, and certainly didn&#039;t think there&#039;d have been money flowing from Paizo back to Wizards as an artifact of the license non-renewal.  So that much isn&#039;t a surprise.

What I&#039;d been wondering was whether Wizards -- whose plans seem to have morphed somewhat since the original announcement of the printzines&#039; demise -- might have extended &quot;goodwill&quot; subscriptions to &lt;b&gt;Dragon&lt;/b&gt;&#039;s print subscribers as a means of kickstarting the ezine and generating good PR for themselves.  (Before anyone laughs, I didn&#039;t think this was &lt;i&gt;likely&lt;/i&gt;, but it would have made enough marketing-sense to be worth thinking about.)

Anyhow, the point I was trying to make up in #95 thus stands -- if I were second-guessing rulings from SFWA&#039;s membership committee, the way I&#039;d vote would be: &lt;b&gt;Dragon&lt;/b&gt;, the printzine, remains a pro market for membership purposes.  &lt;b&gt;Dragon&lt;/b&gt;, the new ezine, is a &lt;i&gt;completely different&lt;/i&gt; market, and presently is not.

I also agree strongly with Annon and James Lowder; my experience over many years, though at greater distance, is that a variant of Feist&#039;s Law (&quot;Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity&quot;) applies here.  This is not a case of WotC&#039;s editorial teams setting out to screw writers; this is a case of corporate management and corporate legal powers hamstringing the editorial teams.  Substitute &quot;ignorance&quot; (at the corporate level) for &quot;stupidity&quot; in the axiom as quoted, and the context should be about right....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken@175:</p>
<p>I&#8217;d remembered reading about Paizo taking steps to compensate subscribers, and certainly didn&#8217;t think there&#8217;d have been money flowing from Paizo back to Wizards as an artifact of the license non-renewal.  So that much isn&#8217;t a surprise.</p>
<p>What I&#8217;d been wondering was whether Wizards &#8212; whose plans seem to have morphed somewhat since the original announcement of the printzines&#8217; demise &#8212; might have extended &#8220;goodwill&#8221; subscriptions to <b>Dragon</b>&#8217;s print subscribers as a means of kickstarting the ezine and generating good PR for themselves.  (Before anyone laughs, I didn&#8217;t think this was <i>likely</i>, but it would have made enough marketing-sense to be worth thinking about.)</p>
<p>Anyhow, the point I was trying to make up in #95 thus stands &#8212; if I were second-guessing rulings from SFWA&#8217;s membership committee, the way I&#8217;d vote would be: <b>Dragon</b>, the printzine, remains a pro market for membership purposes.  <b>Dragon</b>, the new ezine, is a <i>completely different</i> market, and presently is not.</p>
<p>I also agree strongly with Annon and James Lowder; my experience over many years, though at greater distance, is that a variant of Feist&#8217;s Law (&#8220;Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity&#8221;) applies here.  This is not a case of WotC&#8217;s editorial teams setting out to screw writers; this is a case of corporate management and corporate legal powers hamstringing the editorial teams.  Substitute &#8220;ignorance&#8221; (at the corporate level) for &#8220;stupidity&#8221; in the axiom as quoted, and the context should be about right&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Marable</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2007/11/28/dragon-magazine-wants-to-own-your-ass-cheap/#comment-4913</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Marable</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 15:32:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=159#comment-4913</guid>
		<description>To John C. Bunnell @95:

No, WotC is not honoring any subscriptions from the print incarnation of Dragon. All that money stayed at Paizo (who licensed Dragon from WotC).  Details at Paizo are here: http://paizo.com/paizo/news/v5748eaic9kh0 and here http://paizo.com/transition

Hope that helps!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To John C. Bunnell @95:</p>
<p>No, WotC is not honoring any subscriptions from the print incarnation of Dragon. All that money stayed at Paizo (who licensed Dragon from WotC).  Details at Paizo are here: <a href="http://paizo.com/paizo/news/v5748eaic9kh0" rel="nofollow">http://paizo.com/paizo/news/v5748eaic9kh0</a> and here <a href="http://paizo.com/transition" rel="nofollow">http://paizo.com/transition</a></p>
<p>Hope that helps!</p>
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		<title>By: James Lowder</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2007/11/28/dragon-magazine-wants-to-own-your-ass-cheap/#comment-4912</link>
		<dc:creator>James Lowder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2007 21:06:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=159#comment-4912</guid>
		<description>annon&#039;s comments about WotC are important to note. There are some people in house there who know better, who fight to bend things to more creator-friendly forms. There were also people in house at the time of the Dragon CD ROM fiasco who thought it was a stupid idea and recognized the blowback the company would get from professional writers by making that sort of rights grab.

Perhaps this will get fixed -- the company is launching a new book line that might suffer thanks to this Dragon move in the same way the relaunch of Amazing Stories was harmed at the time by the Dragon CD ROM. (Some writers stopped selling to Amazing, others dropped their subscriptions....) Problems like this certainly diminish the PR value of publishing with a market. Editors and other publishers know when a market is tainted -- when it offers such bad terms that many pro writers stay away. So listing a market like that on your resume isn&#039;t likely to impress. In fact, it may make another publisher or editor wonder just how professional you are, if you accepted such bad terms for your work. All credits are not necessarily good credits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>annon&#8217;s comments about WotC are important to note. There are some people in house there who know better, who fight to bend things to more creator-friendly forms. There were also people in house at the time of the Dragon CD ROM fiasco who thought it was a stupid idea and recognized the blowback the company would get from professional writers by making that sort of rights grab.</p>
<p>Perhaps this will get fixed &#8212; the company is launching a new book line that might suffer thanks to this Dragon move in the same way the relaunch of Amazing Stories was harmed at the time by the Dragon CD ROM. (Some writers stopped selling to Amazing, others dropped their subscriptions&#8230;.) Problems like this certainly diminish the PR value of publishing with a market. Editors and other publishers know when a market is tainted &#8212; when it offers such bad terms that many pro writers stay away. So listing a market like that on your resume isn&#8217;t likely to impress. In fact, it may make another publisher or editor wonder just how professional you are, if you accepted such bad terms for your work. All credits are not necessarily good credits.</p>
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		<title>By: James Lowder</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2007/11/28/dragon-magazine-wants-to-own-your-ass-cheap/#comment-4911</link>
		<dc:creator>James Lowder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2007 20:37:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=159#comment-4911</guid>
		<description>{{The fact is that the Dragon CD-ROM was an awesome project, the fans craved and loved it, and a few authors messed it all up over some old old stories they hadn’t managed to sell to anyone else in years and yet sued because the CD-ROM somehow “devalued” the saleability of these stories … that already weren’t selling.}}

The awesomeness justifies the means. How dare those writers stand up for themselves--protect their IP and demand their contracts be honored, their rights respected! WotC would never send out threatening letters to fan web sites that reproduce WotC material without permission! If the fans crave it, the company would never dream of getting in the way!

If anyone needs a reminder of the sort of silly, writer-unfriendly attitudes that make decisions like this possible at WotC....

These new [i]Dragon[/i] terms are a bad deal, even for PR use.

Cheers,
James Lowder</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>{{The fact is that the Dragon CD-ROM was an awesome project, the fans craved and loved it, and a few authors messed it all up over some old old stories they hadn’t managed to sell to anyone else in years and yet sued because the CD-ROM somehow “devalued” the saleability of these stories … that already weren’t selling.}}</p>
<p>The awesomeness justifies the means. How dare those writers stand up for themselves&#8211;protect their IP and demand their contracts be honored, their rights respected! WotC would never send out threatening letters to fan web sites that reproduce WotC material without permission! If the fans crave it, the company would never dream of getting in the way!</p>
<p>If anyone needs a reminder of the sort of silly, writer-unfriendly attitudes that make decisions like this possible at WotC&#8230;.</p>
<p>These new [i]Dragon[/i] terms are a bad deal, even for PR use.</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
James Lowder</p>
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		<title>By: mythago</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2007/11/28/dragon-magazine-wants-to-own-your-ass-cheap/#comment-4910</link>
		<dc:creator>mythago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2007 03:06:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=159#comment-4910</guid>
		<description>Paul, you&#039;re starting from a very bad premise: that a good way for an author to promote their work is to give a magazine &lt;i&gt;all rights, forever&lt;/i&gt; to some other work they&#039;ve done.

If you&#039;re trying to tell me that you are an IP specialist and have some legal perspective I&#039;m missing here, feel free. But I&#039;m not getting your argument that it&#039;s wise for an author to pay somebody else an &lt;i&gt;indeterminate sum&lt;/i&gt;--the complete ownership of something they, a published author, have written--as the cost of publicity of unknown value. Especially since the &#039;free sample&#039; argument suggests that the author would be better off publishing in a venue that doesn&#039;t suck up all rights.

WizarDru, as I remember dimly, there actually was some legal foofaraw over Feist&#039;s &lt;i&gt;Riftworld&lt;/i&gt; series, because he based it on his local group&#039;s D&amp;D campaign, not knowing that the GM had in turn based part of that campaign on M.A.R. Barker&#039;s Empire of the Petal Throne books.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul, you&#8217;re starting from a very bad premise: that a good way for an author to promote their work is to give a magazine <i>all rights, forever</i> to some other work they&#8217;ve done.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re trying to tell me that you are an IP specialist and have some legal perspective I&#8217;m missing here, feel free. But I&#8217;m not getting your argument that it&#8217;s wise for an author to pay somebody else an <i>indeterminate sum</i>&#8211;the complete ownership of something they, a published author, have written&#8211;as the cost of publicity of unknown value. Especially since the &#8216;free sample&#8217; argument suggests that the author would be better off publishing in a venue that doesn&#8217;t suck up all rights.</p>
<p>WizarDru, as I remember dimly, there actually was some legal foofaraw over Feist&#8217;s <i>Riftworld</i> series, because he based it on his local group&#8217;s D&amp;D campaign, not knowing that the GM had in turn based part of that campaign on M.A.R. Barker&#8217;s Empire of the Petal Throne books.</p>
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		<title>By: annon</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2007/11/28/dragon-magazine-wants-to-own-your-ass-cheap/#comment-4909</link>
		<dc:creator>annon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2007 18:46:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=159#comment-4909</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m posting this Anono, but John can e-mail me if he&#039;d like to talk more about this stuff.

I&#039;m writing for Hasbro right now via WotC, and what I&#039;ve noticed is that Harbro has a very large number of people making decisions that do not completely understand exactly how to be a publisher of books with words in them. Toys, they know. Cardgames, they know.  Books, they don&#039;t have the same level of experience doing books and working with freelance writers of books.

They are well-intentioned, intelligent people, and they show a lot of promise. Though I wouldn&#039;t touch Dragon Magazine with a long pole, right now, I wouldn&#039;t be surprised if some of the very talented people working and editing in the books department cannoodle this one into industry standard over time.

Things have definitely gotten better since the initial buyout, and it&#039;s been largely due - from what I&#039;ve seen - to the staff of Wizards gently communicating this new form of business to their new corporate overlords.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m posting this Anono, but John can e-mail me if he&#8217;d like to talk more about this stuff.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m writing for Hasbro right now via WotC, and what I&#8217;ve noticed is that Harbro has a very large number of people making decisions that do not completely understand exactly how to be a publisher of books with words in them. Toys, they know. Cardgames, they know.  Books, they don&#8217;t have the same level of experience doing books and working with freelance writers of books.</p>
<p>They are well-intentioned, intelligent people, and they show a lot of promise. Though I wouldn&#8217;t touch Dragon Magazine with a long pole, right now, I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if some of the very talented people working and editing in the books department cannoodle this one into industry standard over time.</p>
<p>Things have definitely gotten better since the initial buyout, and it&#8217;s been largely due &#8211; from what I&#8217;ve seen &#8211; to the staff of Wizards gently communicating this new form of business to their new corporate overlords.</p>
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