What Was Decided on Super Tuesday: Nothing!

I mean, look at that delegate count from last night. One delegate difference. That’s just nuts. And the GOP side is still wacky, too.

I kind of love it.

Anyway, here’s a place for you to chat about Super Tuesday results if you want. Personally, I’m giving up Super Tuesday for Lent, but don’t let that stop you.

63 thoughts on “What Was Decided on Super Tuesday: Nothing!

  1. Looks like Ohio’s gonna come into play after all…

    From what I’ve seen, looks like we’ll be able to get behind Obama, at the price of being considered a registered Democrat. I sure hope so…I have a feeling it’s gonna be close here.

  2. No change in the Dems, but I’m hard-pressed to imagine why Mitt or Huckleberry are staying in. Huckabee seemed to be positioning himself in a speech last night or this morning for a possible VP nod from McCain.

    I have no clue why Romney’s continuing to throw his own money into this race.

  3. Mark Terry:

    The GOP system is pretty much winner take all, so if Romney can keep McCain from getting the required majority, it’ll have to get settled at the convention, and in the meantime he can still get enough delegates to make a legitimate play. At least that’s how I understand it.

  4. I think it’s pretty clear that Clinton does well in traditional Democratic states (which are going to vote Democratic no matter which candidate is nominated), but that Barack Obama has the cross-over appeal that’s necessary to win the general election. Look at the percentages yesterday. Where he won, he just stomped Hillary, in many, many states. Her wins were much closer (except, it seems, in Oklahoma).

    The primary is a lot different from the general election. You can’t just appeal to your base to win that, especially if half the country actively hates you. A Clinton nomination would just motivate the Republicans to turn out and vote AGAINST her, despite the fact that they might not like McCain. If she did pull it out, this would still be a disaster for Democratic politicians across the country. Barack Obama, on the other hand, holds the potential for a landslide victory – in offices all across our nation – by keeping Democrats enthused and Republicans apathetic. That would be good news for America!

    Regarding Huckabee, he’s staying in so he can help McCain, expecting to get the VP nod as a result. And really, what’s more logical? The right-wing loonies in the GOP don’t like McCain, so choosing Huckabee would win them over. (You can’t win the general election with just your base, but you can’t win without them, either.) A McCain/Huckabee ticket would be really scary, with a very good chance of beating Hillary Clinton, no matter who she chose as a running mate (not Obama, I’m sure).

  5. I’m excited that nothing was decided either, meaning that Virginia has some meaning still. And Ohio, Texas, Pennsyltucky, etc etc.

    I figure Huckbeez is pushing for the veep slot on the McCain ticket as well. If he wins Mississippi, Louisiana, Kentucky, and maybe even Texas (I’m guessing no on the latter), he could be the tiebreaker.

    My best guess is a combination of reasons for Romney staying in. First, the sunk-cost fallacy. “I’m in it for this much already, it’d be a waste to back out now…” Second, he probably genuinely hoped more of the conservative voters would’ve come out for him than Huckabee, and he could rake in delegates if Huckabee drops out. Finally would be out of spite — he figures he can keep McCain from winning the nomination outright.

  6. Wow, from Super Tuesday to Subpar Tuesday! And since last Tuesday I got rear ended on the tollway, why not just kick in a Fubar Tuesday too!!! We could have a Super Fubar Subpar Tuesday!!!

  7. Candidates aside, can I get a round of cheers for my fellow Democratic voters? Because *damn* that was an impressive turnout. Keep that momentum going!

  8. RE #5 (WCG)
    Republicans are going to hold their nose and vote for the Republican, Dems for the Dem, no matter who wins. Sure, there will be a few that defect from either party, but the vast majority pull the lever. I know that I was for Kucinich before I was for Edwards before I was for Obama, but if Clinton wins the nom, she’ll get my vote. Any of the four of them are better than the best Republican option.

    It’s the independents that will, as usual, decide this election. And if they’re stupid enough to vote Republican after eight years of Commander Coo-Coo Bananas, well, we as a country deserve what we get.

  9. I can see Huckabee on McCain’s ticket because McCain’s too moderate (i.e. liberal) for the conservatives and Huckabee’s a religious conservative, and McCain might bring him on to try and bring on more conservatives. Plus, McCain would be 72 if he actually got elected and he’s got to get somebody younger; Romney doesn’t stand a chance as a VP potential.

    I also think the Dems are looking more and more at a Clinton/Obama or vice versa ticket, if they can play nice long enough. It would be interesting, that much is for sure.

  10. I got this last night:

    Kathryn –

    Results will be coming in until late tonight, but we did just learn one piece of great news.

    Thanks to you, we’re projected to win Connecticut.

    I’ll be in touch again later tonight when we have results from more states.

    Barack

    Yes, I know it’s a form letter, but I’m keeping that shizzle in my inbox should he get elected President. It’s still neat.

  11. Jim Kiley on Superfat Tuesday:

    Conan O’Brien did. He even had a Mardi Gras float in his studio — a shirtless fat guy eating a cheeseburger and coke, standing next to a gaily festooned New York voting booth. It was stunning.

  12. The John Oliver bit about Super Tuesday on The Daily Show last night was priceless.

    “You do know that was the Superbowl parade, John?”

    Much bleeped English f bombs thrown.

  13. To echo WCG (#5) upthread, Clinton seems to do very well in the blue states that Kerry and Gore won. Which is all well and good, but if that’s all you can do, it’s still going to leave you 18 electoral votes shy of election in November. I believe that Obama, in addition to carrying the blue states, can pick up some “purple” states, such as Ohio, and perhaps Florida, necessary to actually win the election.

  14. Huckabee as McCain’s running mate? That’s really frightening. So far as can be seen, McCain is in good health. But in 2012 he’ll be 76. So there is a significant chance– much greater than for a younger candidate– that Huckabee will have to finish McCain’s term.

    Just what America needs– another religious maniac in the White House….

  15. I’m just happy there’s a national debate over who should be the nominees. It puts off the inevitable slimings when the candidates are finally chosen.

  16. > Yes, I know it’s a form letter, but I’m keeping that
    > shizzle in my inbox should he get elected President.
    > It’s still neat.

    Lets just hope you don’t plan to “dis-own” Barack. He could end up like the Patriots…

    //Hee

  17. I’m kinda excited as well. I’m not sure if it’s just my impression, but it seems that LOTS of people are interested, too, on both sides of the aisle. I haven’t seen the figures on voter turnout yet, but there were certainly plenty of people waiting to vote with me yesterday, I waited for over an hour.

  18. hugh57,

    if that’s all you can do, it’s still going to leave you 18 electoral votes shy of election in November.

    Pish tush. “If” is such a powerful word for being so small. So your argument is “Buy my assumptions and you buy the conclusion.”

    As a rebuttal, Let’s assume that Hillary’s support among white women will spill over into the independent and conservative base and she’ll win the purple states. Now Hillary is the best candidate.

    Right now nobody really knows how the general election will turn out. For the record my prediction is that it will be a Democratic landslide regardless of who the candidate is, based on primary voter turnout and the dismal state of the economy and the never-ending Iraq war.

    But my prediction is as meaningless as yours. We simply don’t know for sure what will happen.

  19. I think it is great, personally. This is so much more fun than in past years when everything was over even before Super Tuesday. The conventions might actually have real meaning again. I would so love to see some horse-trading of votes at the convention.

    Of course, this might be because I’m from Michigan and I think it would be great for the Democratic National Committee to have to address the fact that Michigan and Florida have no delegates and how that could play into the nomination process.

  20. “As a rebuttal, Let’s assume that Hillary’s support among white women will spill over into the independent and conservative base and she’ll win the purple states. Now Hillary is the best candidate.”

    Except there’s absolutely no data to suggest that Hillary’s support spills over that way, and there is data to suggest that Obama can split the independent vote (taking votes from McCain) and that social conservatives may boycott the general election if it’s McCain-Obama but not if it’s McCain-Clinton (they hate Clinton more than they dislike McCain). Granted, polls haven’t been worth even less than usual this year, and a McCain-Huckabee ticket might revitalize social conservatives. But I still think there’s cause for concern: Tuesday’s results are evocative of the above analysis, with Clinton only doing well in safely blue states and McCain doing poorly in the red states that have been the backbone of Republican strategy for the past 27 years. Nothing is proven, much is suggested.

    The Democrats have demonstrated that they’re perfectly capable of losing an election. That’s the last damn thing we need right now.

  21. The double-negative above should’ve read: “polls have been worth even less than usual this year.” Bad editing before I submitted, sorry.

  22. According to the Drudge Report, it appears that estimates have Obama leading Clinto in the over all delegate count, 908 Obama and 884 Clinton. And the next few states are supposedly favoring Obama.

  23. John Scalzi

    What Was Decided on Super Tuesday: Nothing!

    I don’t think so.

    McCain will be the Republican nominee.

    And the Democrats are headed for a brokered convention where Clinton may very well pull out a victory by calling in her debts and strong-arming the Super Delegates into giver her the coronation.

    That, of course, will be a disaster.

    Democrats need to fix that now so the party does not suffer a irrevocable split come the Fall.

    Will they have to wisdom to head off a train wreck?

    Stay tuned….

  24. On one level, yes, it’s cool how close the Dem show has been. If it wasn’t, Clinton would have to deal with mudslinging that she somehow coerced the Dems to nominate her with her evil vajayjay powers.

    But I worry. Dems never seem very good at tearing each other to shreds in a primary then circling the wagons during the general like the Republicans do. If Obama wins, will anyone buy his support for Clinton or vice-versa? The disenchanted will stay home, which will benefit the side that isn’t running a woman or a black man.

  25. Keep in mind that Obama was behind in the delegate counts going into Super Tuesday – now he’s tied, so that’s an improvement for him. Let’s also keep in mind something about the popular vote – lots of reports of voter disenfranchisement (huge in California – over 700,000 apparently?). An interesting video I found on YouTube this morning: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWKxwVZmomc

    “Lots and lots of errors,” if this is to be believed. Fun times ahead!

    Oh how I wish Edwards and Richardson had come out publicly for Obama last week. *sigh*

  26. Mark DF

    If Obama wins, will anyone buy his support for Clinton or vice-versa?

    Everything depends on how he or she wins. It has to be done in a way that the majority will accept as legitimate.

    And as a general statement:

    Huckabee will not be McCain’s running mate. And neither will Romney.

  27. I’ve always felt that the folks seeking power, with few exceptions, want to limit everyone else’s access to it. From monarchs to the democratically elected. In the United States both Democratic and Republican presidents have succeeded in wielding more power than it would appear the constitution grants them. One good thing about democracy is that if it’s not broken the electorate seeks to overturn these excesses. The high turnout for this primary cycle may be a function of the changes made to the schedule, or it may be the people of the nation expressing their desires. I really, really hope it’s the latter.

    BTW, as others have said. The general election cannot be predicted. The whole point of this exercise is to let the nation choose its leaders. Hopefully, the consensus candidate will work for the nation’s people, and not just a select few this next time around.

  28. WCG Hugh 57 While many Republicans dislike Clinton the truth of the matter is that Obama has a more liberal voting record while Clinton’s record is more moderate.
    Ian M. The idea that the slimings will be less in the general election than in the primaries is silly. The nastyness they will use to beat someone in their own party for the nomination is nothing compared to what they are willing to do to beat the other party for the actual office. The mud will fly.
    Tripp is right. Any opinion on how this will play out is pure speculation. It is sort of like the talk near the end of a sports season. If this team wins and that team loses then this other team will do this. Bla bla bla. Next thing you know there are a couple of upsets and everything changes. That’s why they play the game on the field.

  29. There won’t be a brokered convention. The whole point of superdelegates is that they aren’t committed and therefore can change their minds at any time. I fully expect the super delegates to start hopping sides in the months before the convention if neither camp has more than 50%, probably to whoever has the most delegates.

  30. The whole thing was fascinating to watch even if nothing was ultimately decided on ‘Super Tuesday’

  31. The mud is already flying.

    I’ve been sick lately, and decided to stay home in bed. My wife left at 6:30, expecting to be five or ten minutes late, because the caucus site is about five miles from our house. It took her an hour to get there; traffic was just jammed. She got in at 7:30, got to vote at 8:00, just before it was supposed to close, but by then they had run out of ballots and were voting on torn strips of paper. They had filled the ballot boxes and were using the manila envelopes the convener kits came in as substitutes. Just as she placed her ballot in the envelope, it was announced that they were going to hold the vote open, as there were still two miles of cars waiting to get into the site. Biggest turnout in recent memory (Minnesota, Dakota County).

    She’s a Democrat, but from what I hear, the Republicans had the same woe/joy.

  32. htom

    The figures I saw showed about 9 million Republicans voting and nearly 15 million Democrats. So while the numbers may have been higher for the Repubs than normal, the Dems saw a real boost.

    Though I don’t know if those numbers have been adjusted for relatve dem/rep balance or state populations.

  33. This is the first election I’ve been old enough to vote in, and it’s giving me restless fits. My poor, dog-eared copy of “Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail” is even more dog-eared now. Sleepless nights ahead…

  34. Here in MN, our ballots had to be held open in my precinct caucus until 10 because of the traffic. My kids and I made it two blocks from our house before we cut bait, parked and walked. We were only 10 min late.

    Our turnout was beyond huge. We had more than enough people who wanted to be delegates, and we rounded up a dozen potential election judges.

    Caucusing is messy, time consuming and inconvenient–and I love it.

    In a very racially un-diverse state, with a huge percentage of working women, Obama handily won. I think that can translate into a winning nominee who has serious coattails. If Hillary wins the nomination, she will mobilize the Republicans to vote AGAINST her, and bring out their base in all of the local elections. NOT GOOD.

  35. @#33 – Rembrandt: Yeah, but when has “the truth of the matter” ever amounted to a hill of beans in an election, especially to Republicans? All it took was a few random Vietnam vets declaring that John Kerry stole his medals and liked kicking puppies to turn Dubya into a War Hero.

    To a vast swath of even moderate Republicans, Hillary is the Debbil, she has a portrait of Lenin in her living room, she’ll come to your house and take all the money from your wallet and steal your children’s piggy banks, too, she will personally decide which medical treatments each and every American citizen will or will not receive, and she performs bizarre rituals with black candles and goat blood. No amount of reasonable, rational analysis of voting records or public statements will convince them otherwise.

  36. The disenchanted will stay home

    From my view of things in MN last night there won’t be many disenchanted people staying home regardless of who is nominated.

    Both sides are hungry for change because, let’s face it, the Bush years sucked!

    I know it is hard to see things objectively because we all have our favorites. Also, the internet ‘view’ is skewed and is not representative of the nation. For example yesterday the Yahoo site showed that Ron Paul had the most internet ‘buzz’ among all the candidates of both parties! How did that turn out?

    Doola in #43: First you demonstrate how the Republican slime machine can demonize anyone and then you seem to claim that they will not do the same to Obama because, um, why again?

    Granted they no longer have Rove officially working for them but still you ain’t seen nothing yet. There is no Democratic candidate who won’t be slimed. No one is immune. Expect to see really bad stuff coming from them. Take everything you said about Hillary and add in African American. That’s what Obama will face, and yes it is despicable.

  37. Anecdotes =/= data, but here are my anecdotes:

    My husband is historically a Republican of the old-school fiscal-conservative type, hates the current party runners, but still voted for Bush in ’04 because he was so unimpressed with Kerry. But he’s registered non-partisan here in CA, and was able to join me in voting for Obama yesterday — and yes, he marked his little extra circle he was supposed to mark (I think they gave him the wrong ballot anyway, ’cause his stub said “Democratic” and I think it was supposed to still be a “nonpartisan” ballot). He is hoping for Obama to be the next president with every fiber of his political being (as am I).

    He HATES the Clintons. If it comes down to Clinton vs. McCain, for him it will be HATE vs. “meh,” and I’m pretty sure “meh” will win despite any argument I may try. He just considers the Clintons to be utterly unprincipled and purely out for themselves (yeah, like no other politicians are, but he considers them the worst of the worst). He’s strongly pro-choice, and I’ve tried the Supreme Court argument, but I think he just hates Hillary too much. He doesn’t even like to listen to her talk because he complains she always makes it all about her (as opposed to Obama who tends to say things like “we can do this/YOU can do this”).

    I might have an outside chance if McCain does pick Huckabee as his running mate (OMFG aaaahhh!) but even then I don’t know.

    My mom HATES the Clintons with the same irrational intensity that my husband has. I got her to vote Obama in the primary (she’s still registered Democratic, for some reason, despite last voting Dem for Carter in ’80 because she thought he was a “good man” from seeing him at a speech in person). But I think that was as much a vote against Hillary as for Obama. I might have an outside chance of getting her to Obama versus McCain (esp if McCain picks up Huckabee), but I know I’ll have zero chance with Clinton.

    I will vote for whoever is the Democratic nominee, but I want Obama to win because he is showing the ability to motivate lots of people to vote FOR something/someone. He has an inspirational quality that I think would be very healthy for the future of this country. Other people are saying it better and I’m too long already so I’ll leave it at that.

  38. Yep, Obama will be slimed in ways he never imagined if he makes it to the general. His admission of past drug-use alone, which has barely been touched in the primaries, will be irresistable to the swift boaters. (not that they won’t do the same to Hillary, but she hits back).

    On the Republican side, there’s absolutely no way McCain would be dumb enough to choose Huckabee as VP. It would cost him all his moderate support, and it wouldn’t even shore up his wing-nut base (they consider Huckabee, for all his godliness, to be soft on immigration and open to tax increases). Ain’t gonna happen.

    Now, Clinton-Obama—that would be a wise move. It would consolidate the entire party and Obama’s presence on the ticket would suck in McCain’s independents (and some moderate Republicans looking for change). Hillary would get some of that Camelot glow, and Barrack would get the estabilishment cred he needs and be the defacto front runner in 8 years. If they can only put aside their evident personal issues with one another….

  39. No, my statement had nothing to do with the level of attempted swiftboating of one candidate or the other. That’s going to happen no matter who it is. My (perhaps inelegant) point was that a lot of Republicans, perhaps even otherwise intelligent and reasonable Republicans, believe that Hillary is the Ultra-Left Debbil, no matter what the actual evidence suggests.

    A few years back, my brother got a Senate fellowship, and interviewed for staff positions with the Finance Committee, and with Senator Clinton’s office. Our parents, registered Republicans, fiscal conservatives who are pro-immigration, pro-choice and in favor of gay marriage, were absolutely horrified at the prospect that their son might be working for Hillary. He might as well have said that he’d interviewed to work for Stalin. They were actually worried about what they were going to tell their friends if he wound up working for Hillary.

    If the Republicans were to nominate Romney or Huckleberry, my parents might well vote for Obama. But I have no doubt that both would pick even Huckleberry over Hillary.

  40. “His admission of past drug-use alone, which has barely been touched in the primaries, will be irresistable to the swift boaters. ”

    If Obama learns the art of saying “Yeah. So?” there’s not much the GOP can do to him. You discredit one attempt to slime a candidate, the rest look pretty pathetic afterward. Already, they’ve tried to play the closet Muslim card (Disproved) and black separatist (Doesn’t wash) cards. I think Obama’s going to be harder to slime. It can be done. It just might not be as useful as it was against Kerry, who was about as convincing as Paris Hilton claiming celibacy.

  41. Did anyone see which way American Samoa went? Because I really enjoy seeing the .5 seconds on television with, “40 votes for ___ and 2 for ____”.

  42. The level of turnout and engagement has been invigorating. I wanted Edwards, but voted Obama.

    I believe that if Hillary gets the Democratic nomination, the best running mate she can have will be Obama, to retain committed Obama voters (not necessarily only the devoted Democratic ones) and the believers in change.

    But if Obama gets the nomination — which I hope will happen, as he does, as noted above, seem far less divisive/likely to make uncommiteds vote Republican or even bother to show up in Nov. — the best Veep he could have is not Clinton, since she brings too much baggage/doesn’t add anything. (The devoted Dems would vote for him anyway, and Clinton’s support among cross-over women seems less strong than Obama’s own support among younger and urban demographics of any flavor.) For his running mate, maybe instead someone with some foreign policy cred.

  43. Also, McCain is scary. I heard him speak, and his harping on “my friends” and how the War on Abstract Noun is winnable and will be his absolute first priority was very worrisome.

  44. I suspect Obama will have no problem hitting back if he has to.

    And while I realize that I am waaaaaay out of the political mainstream, I have trouble believing that acceptance of a VP slot would enhance Obama’s overall credibility or distract the pathological Clinton-haters from their bilious, knee-jerk loathing.

    One of the problems the Democrats have had is that some of us liberals have serious issues with the whole Clinton/DLC nexus. Long-term issues that gave Nader traction in 2000 and briefly gave Dean traction in 2004. In the short term, this isn’t an issue for Clinton because the past eight years give us no alternative: a centrist Democrat is better than another nutty conservative. But in the long term, it could be a problem for Obama if he eventually hitches his wagon to the Clintons: he has credibility for a lot of people because he’s not the establishment candidate. The “VP now, rock-solid successor in 2016″ scheme some are advocating for Obama assumes that a lot of people who are pulling for Obama right now won’t be disenchanted after another Clinton presidency the way we were after the first Clinton presidency. We turned away from Gore in droves, and yes, look where it got us. Gaining establishment credit and losing outsider credit would be a net zero for Obama, maybe even a net loss.

    Let me add that Hillary Clinton’s qualifications are, in my opinion, undeniable. It’s her principles that worry me. When Bill Clinton put her in charge of healthcare at the beginning of his first term, I was one of the few people who thought it was a masterstroke akin to JFK appointing RFK as his AG: select the smartest, savviest, most loyal person you know to clean house. Of course it failed, and since then it has been one heartbreak after another, a long stream of compromises, sellouts and hedged bets from Bill’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” to Hillary’s vote to give George Bush a blank check for the Iraq war. I’ll vote for Hillary if she’s the nominee, with no doubt of her ability and no faith in her potential.

    But what do I know? The closest candidate to my values was Kucinich, who never had an egg’s chance in a blender….

  45. My father told me recently that nobody can mobilize the Republican base like Hillary Clinton.

    Clinton is not my first choice, but she’s a competent candidate and if she was the Democratic nominee I’d vote for her. But from what I hear, if it was a Clinton vs. McCain contest, it’d be neck-and-neck. However, if it was an Obama vs. McCain contest, Obama would win in a landslide.

  46. I’m just going to note that I think the tornadoes in Tennessee and Arkansas are God’s judgment for their voting for voting for Huckabee.

  47. Remember last week when we were asked about the advice we would have given ourselves when we were 15 years old (Oh god I hope this does not fall under the edict of adhering to the “thread rules”). I was excited that we were going to have for the first time a woman And an African-American running for president. I voted for Obama in the primary, and I really want him to win. Haven’t we had enough of the old guard, and the religious zealots?

    And will this posting be banned because I refer to Ash Wednesday as Trash Wednesday?

    Christopher Hitchens has an excellent book about the whole religion thing. Good reading, and it does not in any way compromise or deter from John Scalzi’s writings so no one will feel disloyal.

  48. I can’t tell you how refreshing it is to see people here actually *saying out loud* that they have no idea how things will shape up in the general election, regardless of who runs against who. People who claim otherwise are incredibly tiresome and full of shit.

    Disclosure: I’m a Canuck, with all the irrelevance that implies. However, my first choice would be Hillary, because she’s a proven knife-fighter and anyone who thinks that the Repug slime machine is going to be nice to Obama is kidding themselves. That said, if Palpatine/Vader were to end up being the Dem’s champions they’d get my hypothetical vote regardless, because….

    Who am I kidding? I’d vote for Palpatine/Vader over *anybody*!

  49. >>. Gaining establishment credit and losing outsider credit would be a net zero for Obama, maybe even a net loss.

    Understood, but you can only be an outsider so long. Eight more years as a senator will tend to reduce his outsider cred by the next election cycle. Don’t forget, if Clinton does become president, someone will be VP and the likely heir apparent to the throne–it would likely be an uphill fight for him at that point. He’d be wiser to go for the VP spot now and put his fate in his own hands to a large degree. And if they run and lose, he would still be in good shape to go for it again in 4 years with the entire party behind him..

    And, besides, above and beyond his personal fortunes, it would be the right thing to do—-if he genuinely thought it would win the election for his party.

    The reverse ticket, by the way (Obama/Clinton) would not be advisable for too many reasons to list.

  50. daniel b: I see what you’re saying, but I still think it might be a tougher call than that. I tend to think one of the reasons Edwards did so poorly was that he seemed kind of like damaged goods after running with Kerry, not to mention that it was hard to reconcile Edwards v1.0 from ’04 with the Edwards 2.0. I suspect a lot of folks either missed the original version or wanted to like the new version but were suspicious because of the old version.

    I want Obama to get the nomination. I think he can win, I think he has the potential to accomplish some things if he really wants to, and I think his charisma does count for something if it motivates people to think of government as something that can be positive. But we’ll see.

    Hell, with my luck, Huckabee will somehow pull out of his apparent death-spiral and will be elected Patriarch of the United States Of Christ. Eventually I’ll accidentally say something snarky about Jesus and either be stoned or taken to a camp. Probably the former, once the Constitution is amended to reflect the Ten Commandments, but either way, it was nice knowing all you people.

  51. I got her to vote Obama in the primary (she’s still registered Democratic, for some reason, despite last voting Dem for Carter in ‘80 because she thought he was a “good man” from seeing him at a speech in person)

  52. Ooops Sorry here was was intended

    ink canary girl @45

    If it comes down to Clinton vs. McCain, for him it will be HATE vs. “meh,” and I’m pretty sure “meh” will win despite any argument I may try.

    Since this is a great forum in which to quote Heinlein, I will

    “If you are part of a society that votes, then do so. There may be no candidates and no measures you want to vote for … but there are certain to be ones you want to vote against. In case of doubt, vote against. By this rule you will rarely go wrong.”

    I got her to vote Obama in the primary (she’s still registered Democratic, for some reason, despite last voting Dem for Carter in ‘80 because she thought he was a “good man” from seeing him at a speech in person)

    Yeah Carter drove lots of Democrats to the Republicans: hence, Reagan Democrats.

    Still does…

    Daniel B @ 46

    On the Republican side, there’s absolutely no way McCain would be dumb enough to choose Huckabee as VP.

    I think you are right. He won’t pick either Huckabee or Romney. I was thinking he might pick Giuliani, but I’m rethinking that. It would be a strong moderate right ticket, but he clearly needs help in the South so I’m thinking a Southern fiscal conservative with street cred is what he’ll be looking for.

    Jim Winter @48

    Already, they’ve tried to play the closet Muslim card (Disproved) and black separatist (Doesn’t wash) cards.

    Um. That wasn’t the GOP, that was the Clinton team.

  53. I agree that McCain won’t choose Huckabee as the VP. Among conservatives (or wing-nuts or right-wing loonies), he’s considered weak. Mark Sanford maybe? McCain will try to reach out to conservatives at CPAC, but considering he has open borders cheerleader and Mexican cabinet official Juan Hernandez on his campaign staff, it ain’t gonna work.

    If Clinton gets the nod, I believe there is a chance she could choose Jim Webb as her running mate to draw some of the unimportant white male, patriot, veteran, Reagan Democrat vote. Obviously the importance of this demographic pales in comparison to the importance of the Hispanic vote, but it might not hurt her to try reach out to this tiny minority.

  54. >>Understood, but you can only be an outsider so long. Eight more years as a senator will tend to reduce his outsider cred by the next election cycle.

    Maybe four years. She doesn’t get better….

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