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	<title>Comments on: 2:42 the Perfect Time for a Pop Song? You Don&#8217;t Say.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/04/17/242-the-perfect-time-for-a-pop-song-you-dont-say/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/04/17/242-the-perfect-time-for-a-pop-song-you-dont-say/</link>
	<description>WE PRIDE OURSELVES ON OUR HUMILITY</description>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Vos Post</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/04/17/242-the-perfect-time-for-a-pop-song-you-dont-say/#comment-25254</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Vos Post</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 00:32:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=640#comment-25254</guid>
		<description>Professor Timothy Poston emailed me to add:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Scorn_Not_the_Sonnet&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Scorn Not the Sonnet, by William Wordsworth&lt;/a&gt;

and:

&#039;Scorn not the sonnet&#039;, though its strength be sapped,
Nor say malignant its inventor blundered;
The corpse that here in fourteen lines is wrapped
Had otherwise been covered with a hundred.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Professor Timothy Poston emailed me to add:</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Scorn_Not_the_Sonnet" rel="nofollow">Scorn Not the Sonnet, by William Wordsworth</a></p>
<p>and:</p>
<p>&#8216;Scorn not the sonnet&#8217;, though its strength be sapped,<br />
Nor say malignant its inventor blundered;<br />
The corpse that here in fourteen lines is wrapped<br />
Had otherwise been covered with a hundred.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Vos Post</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/04/17/242-the-perfect-time-for-a-pop-song-you-dont-say/#comment-25253</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Vos Post</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Apr 2008 16:54:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=640#comment-25253</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve got to say, as someone with a B.S. in English Literature from Caltech (among other degrees) that this claim to ideal pop song length is similar to one of the &quot;rules&quot; of poetry which Edgar Allan Poe [19 January 1809 – 7 October 1849]  explicated in &quot;The Philosophy of Composition&quot; and &quot;The Poetic Principle&quot; [written near the end of his life and published posthumously in 1850].

In particular, Poe called the ideal poem short, at most 100 lines, and utilizing the &quot;most poetical topic in the world&quot;: the death of a beautiful woman. [Poe uses the composition of his own poem &quot;The Raven&quot; as an example. The essay &quot;The Philosophy of Composition&quot; first appeared in the April 1846 issue of Graham&#039;s Magazine. see also Hoffman, Daniel. Poe Poe Poe Poe Poe Poe Poe. Louisiana State University Press, 1972. p. 272. ISBN 0807123218].

As currently on wikipedia: &quot; T. S. Eliot said: &quot;It is difficult for us to read that essay without reflecting that if Poe plotted out his poem with such calculation, he might have taken a little more pains over it: the result hardly does credit to the method.&quot; Biographer Joseph Wood Krutch described the essay as, &quot;a rather highly ingenious exercise in the art of rationalization than literary criticism. [Krutch, Joseph Wood. Edgar Allan Poe: A Study in Genius. New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1926. p. 98]&quot;

Given that Poe invented both the modern Science Fiction short story and the modern Detective story, I&#039;m surprised that his name doesn&#039;t come up more often in this blog.

The margins of this comment are too small for me to enumerate the many contributions which Poe made to pop songs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve got to say, as someone with a B.S. in English Literature from Caltech (among other degrees) that this claim to ideal pop song length is similar to one of the &#8220;rules&#8221; of poetry which Edgar Allan Poe [19 January 1809 – 7 October 1849]  explicated in &#8220;The Philosophy of Composition&#8221; and &#8220;The Poetic Principle&#8221; [written near the end of his life and published posthumously in 1850].</p>
<p>In particular, Poe called the ideal poem short, at most 100 lines, and utilizing the &#8220;most poetical topic in the world&#8221;: the death of a beautiful woman. [Poe uses the composition of his own poem "The Raven" as an example. The essay "The Philosophy of Composition" first appeared in the April 1846 issue of Graham's Magazine. see also Hoffman, Daniel. Poe Poe Poe Poe Poe Poe Poe. Louisiana State University Press, 1972. p. 272. ISBN 0807123218].</p>
<p>As currently on wikipedia: &#8221; T. S. Eliot said: &#8220;It is difficult for us to read that essay without reflecting that if Poe plotted out his poem with such calculation, he might have taken a little more pains over it: the result hardly does credit to the method.&#8221; Biographer Joseph Wood Krutch described the essay as, &#8220;a rather highly ingenious exercise in the art of rationalization than literary criticism. [Krutch, Joseph Wood. Edgar Allan Poe: A Study in Genius. New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1926. p. 98]&#8221;</p>
<p>Given that Poe invented both the modern Science Fiction short story and the modern Detective story, I&#8217;m surprised that his name doesn&#8217;t come up more often in this blog.</p>
<p>The margins of this comment are too small for me to enumerate the many contributions which Poe made to pop songs.</p>
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		<title>By: John Scalzi</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/04/17/242-the-perfect-time-for-a-pop-song-you-dont-say/#comment-25252</link>
		<dc:creator>John Scalzi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 20:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=640#comment-25252</guid>
		<description>Joshua Allen:

So what you&#039;re saying is great minds think alike?

I can live with that.

Excellent taste in songs in any event.

And since there was no idea snaking in this case, there is no need for an apology, although the offer is very much appreciated. Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joshua Allen:</p>
<p>So what you&#8217;re saying is great minds think alike?</p>
<p>I can live with that.</p>
<p>Excellent taste in songs in any event.</p>
<p>And since there was no idea snaking in this case, there is no need for an apology, although the offer is very much appreciated. Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: SPKelly</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/04/17/242-the-perfect-time-for-a-pop-song-you-dont-say/#comment-25251</link>
		<dc:creator>SPKelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 16:20:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=640#comment-25251</guid>
		<description>When I first saw the post title, I thought he&#039;s up late in the night isn&#039;t he?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I first saw the post title, I thought he&#8217;s up late in the night isn&#8217;t he?</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Woodhouse</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/04/17/242-the-perfect-time-for-a-pop-song-you-dont-say/#comment-25237</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Woodhouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 16:07:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=640#comment-25237</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a joy, no arguments here. I don&#039;t know that 2:42 is strictly necessary, though: my candidate for short-duration perfection has always been &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa1IRGtp9Gw&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Roll To Me&lt;/a&gt;, which only just scrapes over the two-minute mark. So I could listen to it almost three times instead of Bohemian Rhapsody. Which can&#039;t be a bad thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a joy, no arguments here. I don&#8217;t know that 2:42 is strictly necessary, though: my candidate for short-duration perfection has always been <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa1IRGtp9Gw" rel="nofollow">Roll To Me</a>, which only just scrapes over the two-minute mark. So I could listen to it almost three times instead of Bohemian Rhapsody. Which can&#8217;t be a bad thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Monty</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/04/17/242-the-perfect-time-for-a-pop-song-you-dont-say/#comment-25236</link>
		<dc:creator>Monty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 15:19:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=640#comment-25236</guid>
		<description>josh allen = classy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>josh allen = classy</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua Allen</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/04/17/242-the-perfect-time-for-a-pop-song-you-dont-say/#comment-25246</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 14:13:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=640#comment-25246</guid>
		<description>Hey there, this is Josh, the unfortunate dude who wrote the Morning News article. Someone just forwarded me this post and I had a smallish heart attack. Scout&#039;s honor, John, I never saw your original post until now.

I&#039;ve been making mix CDs of super-short songs recently, under a minute, and decided that they were too short to get much joy out of, so I upped the time limit and came up with a vague belief that certain songs between 2:30 and 3:00 were really good at encapsulating what was best about particular bands. (This is also not a fresh or original idea but whatever.)

I pitched that to the Morning News and then realized it was sort of a boring thesis, so I decided to just pick some really specific time as the perfect song length and be a real blowhard about it since obviously this is an indefensible and ridiculous argument.

As I skimmed through the songs in iTunes I tried to find a length that had a bunch of decent songs that I could use to bolster my dumb thesis, and -- oddly enough -- I noticed &quot;There She Goes,&quot; which I&#039;ve always thought was pretty flawless song, one that very few people would fight me over. So it looks like both you and I ended up on 2:42 for the same reason.

(Unfortunately I wasn&#039;t crazy about the other 2:42 songs I had -- I mean, they were OK but not PERFECT -- but I was already committed so I just ran with it.)

So I just wanted to say I didn&#039;t rip you off, but you certainly came to same conclusion WAY before I did. I&#039;ve been writing on the internet since 1995 and have had several of my stories pilfered over the years and know how unsettling it is -- and also know how stupid it is to steal someone&#039;s work online because it *always* comes back to them. It never would&#039;ve even occurred to me to try to pull something like that.

Anyway, my apologies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey there, this is Josh, the unfortunate dude who wrote the Morning News article. Someone just forwarded me this post and I had a smallish heart attack. Scout&#8217;s honor, John, I never saw your original post until now.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been making mix CDs of super-short songs recently, under a minute, and decided that they were too short to get much joy out of, so I upped the time limit and came up with a vague belief that certain songs between 2:30 and 3:00 were really good at encapsulating what was best about particular bands. (This is also not a fresh or original idea but whatever.)</p>
<p>I pitched that to the Morning News and then realized it was sort of a boring thesis, so I decided to just pick some really specific time as the perfect song length and be a real blowhard about it since obviously this is an indefensible and ridiculous argument.</p>
<p>As I skimmed through the songs in iTunes I tried to find a length that had a bunch of decent songs that I could use to bolster my dumb thesis, and &#8212; oddly enough &#8212; I noticed &#8220;There She Goes,&#8221; which I&#8217;ve always thought was pretty flawless song, one that very few people would fight me over. So it looks like both you and I ended up on 2:42 for the same reason.</p>
<p>(Unfortunately I wasn&#8217;t crazy about the other 2:42 songs I had &#8212; I mean, they were OK but not PERFECT &#8212; but I was already committed so I just ran with it.)</p>
<p>So I just wanted to say I didn&#8217;t rip you off, but you certainly came to same conclusion WAY before I did. I&#8217;ve been writing on the internet since 1995 and have had several of my stories pilfered over the years and know how unsettling it is &#8212; and also know how stupid it is to steal someone&#8217;s work online because it *always* comes back to them. It never would&#8217;ve even occurred to me to try to pull something like that.</p>
<p>Anyway, my apologies.</p>
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		<title>By: Kate Nepveu</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/04/17/242-the-perfect-time-for-a-pop-song-you-dont-say/#comment-25245</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate Nepveu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 14:12:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=640#comment-25245</guid>
		<description>Or, possibly, he read it a while ago, forgot that he&#039;d found it anywhere specific, and didn&#039;t bother to do a two-second web search when it came time to write his own column.

It was three and a half years ago, and I have the kind of memory that makes me understand how it could happen.

I would still have checked to make sure I didn&#039;t get the idea from somewhere else, though, so I&#039;m not excusing this guy. I just don&#039;t think conscious intent to rip off is necessary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or, possibly, he read it a while ago, forgot that he&#8217;d found it anywhere specific, and didn&#8217;t bother to do a two-second web search when it came time to write his own column.</p>
<p>It was three and a half years ago, and I have the kind of memory that makes me understand how it could happen.</p>
<p>I would still have checked to make sure I didn&#8217;t get the idea from somewhere else, though, so I&#8217;m not excusing this guy. I just don&#8217;t think conscious intent to rip off is necessary.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Akers</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/04/17/242-the-perfect-time-for-a-pop-song-you-dont-say/#comment-25244</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Akers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 14:00:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=640#comment-25244</guid>
		<description>I assume this is where Front 242 got their name.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I assume this is where Front 242 got their name.</p>
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		<title>By: John Scalzi</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/04/17/242-the-perfect-time-for-a-pop-song-you-dont-say/#comment-25250</link>
		<dc:creator>John Scalzi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:42:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=640#comment-25250</guid>
		<description>Madeley:

Indeed, I have two of Cast&#039;s albums (the first two, I think).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Madeley:</p>
<p>Indeed, I have two of Cast&#8217;s albums (the first two, I think).</p>
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