“How on Earth could this be considered a negative? I’d be delighted to have a candidate who campaigned on a platform of “If elected, I promise that nothing will get done in Washington DC.”

Hell, it’s about the only part of Ventura’s administration that I remain happy about.”

I agree regarding Ventura’s campaign and administration. He said he was going to try to get things done that he thought needed to be done, and went out and tried to get them done.

I have two reasons for pushing for Obama.
1) War with Iran is stupid, McCain has said that something needs to be done about Iran, and has attacked Obama for wanting to talk. That leaves sanctions and war, and we all know how well sanctions effect the ruling class of a country.
2) I have no idea what McCain’s policies are regarding anything else.

What is he going to do about the downturn in the economy? Balance the budget? That is all I hear… how is he going to do this. Obama claiming he wants a bi-partisan group setup to fix it is something that might work.

What other policies does McCain have? Stay in Iraq until we are done? Good! I thought the Mission was already Accomplished? Seriously, calling the ‘timeframe’ to leave Iraq a ‘time horizon’ is a mistake… you never ever reach the horizon.

As an aside, the government site lists McCain as graduating from West Point 893 in a class of 898.

Can I ask though – how did you get this picked up and into google news?

Very impressive that this blog is syndicated through Google and is it something that is just up to Google or you actively created?

Obviously this is a popular blog with great data so well done on your seo success..

Windsurfing greats you should write about next.

And he goes for the rhetoric again. “Fixated”? I didn’t bring ‘household’ into the discussion, you did. If you’d wanted to criticize Obama, you should have criticized Obama. Discussions of McCain’s sons and ostentatious mentions of the Obama ‘household’ have only one implication. You got caught in a silly remark, and many many comments later, you’re still dancing and filling around that.

Second, also as to the Swiftboaters, Kerry hurt his own case. He did so by exagerrating his military experiences (Christmas in Cambodia which he repeatedly stated was seared in his memory, only to have it pointed out he was wrong). Once he told one “fish” story, it was easier to attack the rest of his military experiences, however unfair.

Third, to critique McCain for Col. Day is wrong on multiple levels. First, if every “spokeperson’s”, official or not, past mistakes were to be attributed to the candidate, then both Obama and McCain would have precious few people available to them. Second, McCain directly stood up for Kerry (was likely the first public figure to do so) and specifically denounced the Swiftboaters. Third, Obama’s own surrogates, most recently Wesley Clark, have taken aim at McCain’s military carreer in a hypocritical effort to minimize the effect of that in comparison to Obama’s lack of service.

As to the Obama “household” you seem fixated on his daughters. I pointed out that looking to parents, spouses and the candidates themselves, all members of thier respective households, the comparison favors, for impression purposes, the McCains. I do not judge them based on thier minor children (the McCains also have a minor daughter, adopted out of Asia). The fact that the McCains have adult sons whom many parents would be proud is certainly an asset though.

The issue, as it was from the beginning, is that you didn’t just limit it to Obama, you broadened it out to Obama’s “household” while explicitly talking about McCain’s sons. The sly comparison in there was to Obama’s daughters. When about four people pointed out that Obama’s daughters were 7 and 10, rather than admitting that you’d misspoken and moving on, you essentially ignored it. You’ve ignored it ever since.

Obama and his household

And you do it again in this one. How exactly are his daughters, age 7 and 10, conflicted about America? Have they given lengthy speeches about it? Protested against the war in Iraq? Tell me, I’d be fascinated to know.

The quotes and behavior that have come out over the couple of years don’t need to be rehashed.

Really? So the youngest daughter started speaking out against the U.S. when she was 4? Or 5? That’s an impressively early start. Perhaps she wore a Che Guevara onesie in the crib?

As to the Rambo comment, you need to take a chill pill

Again with the telling people they’re overreacting. You go for that rhetorical device a lot, don’t you?

(which I reference only since the issue of medals seems important to you)

You’re just full of rhetorical devices today, aren’t you? “Sigh,” you say heavily. “Since the issue of medals _seems important_ to you (subtext: you silly man), I’ll deal with it.”

You know as well as I do that the Swiftboaters deliberately and maliciously went after Kerry’s military service for partisan reasons. By doing so, they planted a seed about anyone’s military service. McCain has (at least) one of those people speaking for him. He’s thrown a lot of his principles overboard in his quest to be President. That was one of them.

Thank you for the citation. Since I would assume you’d acknowledge that McCain and his sons have taken their “lumps”, I’ll go with the last sentence of the post where I state “Which is not the impression I get from the Obama household.”

Exactly, how is this sentence an attack on Obama’s patriotism? Its a pure, and I believe factually accurate, comparison between McCain’s record of service and Obama’s lack of such a record. Everything Obama has done *seems* to be about advancing Obama, which is not the case with McCain. If you have some noteworty citation to some self sacrificing behavior on the part of Obama, I would like to see it. I might be willing to reconsider my position.

Looking to the two candidates “deeds”, John McCain has demonstrated time after time, his devotion to this country. Obama has not, though that does not mean that he isn’t devoted. That leaves me only with Obama’s words, to contrast with McCain’s actions.

But even focusing on the candidates’ words alone, Obama and his household appear very conflicted vis a vis a positive view of America. The quotes and behavior that have come out over the couple of years don’t need to be rehashed. I’ll even acknowledge that one or more incidents may have been taken out of context. Reporters are known for doing so, especially if they can stir controversy and sell copy. But the impression (which is the word I used in the last sentence that you took issue with) left, fairly or unfairly, is that Obama, and his parents (at least his mother), and his spouse have, on ocassion expressed a conflicted, negative view of this country. This conflict is not apparent in John McCain and his family, who present as confident in the innate goodness of this country.

As to the Rambo comment, you need to take a chill pill. Rambo, as you apparently are aware, is a fictional, unrealistic super soldier who has never existed and never will exist (outside a John Scalzi or Robert Heinlein novel). In real life, bullets do not respect tough guys. That is exactly why I made the comparison, as even if Kerry, McCain, etc. were such an utterly ridiculous super soldier, it would not sway my vote. What counts for me, in part, is whether the candidate put on the uniform (equal credit is given for the Peace Corps). Kerry, McCain, Bush (both), Gore, Dole, Carter, Reagan, etc. all did, to their credit. How many medals they collected along the way is irrelevant so far as I am concerned. They all get equal points when running for president. Clinton, by contrast, was docked.

Which means, if you’ve managed to translate my comments, the Swiftboat ad meant and means diddly to me. Ditto Dan Rather trying to torpedo George Bush with false National Guard reviews.

By the way, exactly what does the Swiftboat ads have to do with McCain v. Obama? Is it limited to a Medal of Honor winner (which I reference only since the issue of medals seems important to you) who supported the Swiftboaters supporting McCain? If so, rest assured that I am well aware the Col. Day’s hero status does not render him an expert on economics, politics, etc, so I’ll form my own opinions irrespective of Col. Day’s.

That was easy:

“For all the McCain bashing because he, and his children, was born into privilege, he, and apparently his sons, seem more than willing to take their lumps. Which is not the impression I get from the Obama household.”

It’s comment 157, if you need a further reference.

Sad to say, I don’t live in a black and white world.

The world is mostly shades of gray. Sometimes, just sometimes, along comes a moment when it’s not. The failure of most people is being unable to recognize those moments.

Whether he was Rambo or not is beside the point, making the Swiftboaters v. Kerry argument somewhat moot in my personal view.

Whether he was Rambo or not? The only way you think that the dispute has meaning is whether Kerry was really Rambo? A fictional Sylvester Stallone character is your measure of service in wartime? The sad thing is that really may be the way you’re evaluating things, and you may not have any idea that the Swiftboaters devalued _everyone’s_ Purple Heart because the lesson they sold to a lot of people was that–like Clinton’s blow job wasn’t really sex–a Purple Heart ‘isn’t really a medal.’

Please quote, exactly, my supposedly “silly remark”, to quote you exactly. Please cite to were I claimed that Obama was unpatriotic (as opposed to your bare assertion). Claiming that McCain has demonstrated it, has bled for this country, has placed himself in harms way (as have his sons, father and grandfather) is not the same as claiming that Obama is not.

What I have done, to paraphrase Kerry, is underline that McCain’s deeds, not merely his words, have demonstrated his commitment to this country as compared to Obama. While an imperfect gauge, it is one factor that I can add to the scales in McCain’s favor. Adding in experience (Barack’s 2 years vs. McCains 20+ in federal government, on top of McCain’s 20 years in the Navy), judgement (the surge worked, which McCain was instrumental in putting in place and got Rumsfield fired in the process), policies (McCain has never taken an earmark, is solid 2d amendment, etc.), I find him the more attractive candidate (though by far from ideal in my mind) as compared to Obama.

And I am very sorry to be unable to unequivocally proclaim the truth of the Swiftboaters v. Kerry. Sad to say, I don’t live in a black and white world. It must be a very comfortable place. Kerry (and his supporters) should be proud that he put on the uniform and, as a result, risked his life. Whether he was Rambo or not is beside the point, making the Swiftboaters v. Kerry argument somewhat moot in my personal view.

Ah, the rhetorical loveliness of being “fair to both sides.”

The Swift Boaters spat on someone’s military career and by doing so they enabled 20 year old Republican Convention attendees to wear band-aids with purple hearts on them. Leaving Kerry aside, that disrespected every single person who was awarded a Purple Heart at any time.

As to my supposedly blasting the Obamas, you are being hyper sensitive.

No, I’m not. And along with the weasel words, telling someone that they’re overreacting is an old rhetorical dodge, one normally brought out when someone doesn’t really have a good response.

You made a silly remark about the McCains and the Obamas, you got called on it, and you’ve spent every post since then trying to dodge around the fact that it was a silly remark.