Comments on: It’s Probably True http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/08/05/its-probably-true/ WE PRIDE OURSELVES ON OUR HUMILITY Sun, 14 Mar 2010 21:34:10 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Joe Rybicki http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/08/05/its-probably-true/#comment-41389 Joe Rybicki Fri, 08 Aug 2008 13:35:13 +0000 http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=1270#comment-41389 I think this can be summed up quite neatly <a href="http://johnnyhighground.com/images/misc/ScalzisLaw.jpg" rel="nofollow">in visual form</a>. I think this can be summed up quite neatly in visual form.

]]> By: Dr. Phil http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/08/05/its-probably-true/#comment-41388 Dr. Phil Fri, 08 Aug 2008 02:21:52 +0000 http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=1270#comment-41388 agm: The statement that two (or more) things in thermal contact are at the same temperature is a statement on thermal equilibrium. Conversely, if they are not at the same temperature, then they not in equilibrium and there will be a net heat flow -- tending towards a new equilibrium, unless additional heat Q or work W is added or extracted. If you cannot define a temperature difference, then we wouldn't have the laws of thermodynamics as they are defined now. I'm not sure we're arguing here. (grin) Dr. Phil agm: The statement that two (or more) things in thermal contact are at the same temperature is a statement on thermal equilibrium. Conversely, if they are not at the same temperature, then they not in equilibrium and there will be a net heat flow — tending towards a new equilibrium, unless additional heat Q or work W is added or extracted. If you cannot define a temperature difference, then we wouldn’t have the laws of thermodynamics as they are defined now.

I’m not sure we’re arguing here. (grin)

Dr. Phil

]]> By: Ednarb http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/08/05/its-probably-true/#comment-41387 Ednarb Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:52:19 +0000 http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=1270#comment-41387 Submitted too fast - meant to include: This law is 100% true. I saw this today, and couldn't think of anyone else. How does it feel to be forever connected with bacon? http://www.thekitchn.com/thekitchn/good-questions/what-smells-do-you-like-waking-up-to-058757 Submitted too fast – meant to include:

This law is 100% true. I saw this today, and couldn’t think of anyone else. How does it feel to be forever connected with bacon?

http://www.thekitchn.com/thekitchn/good-questions/what-smells-do-you-like-waking-up-to-058757

]]> By: Ednarb http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/08/05/its-probably-true/#comment-41386 Ednarb Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:50:53 +0000 http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=1270#comment-41386 http://www.thekitchn.com/thekitchn/good-questions/what-smells-do-you-like-waking-up-to-058757 http://www.thekitchn.com/thekitchn/good-questions/what-smells-do-you-like-waking-up-to-058757

]]> By: agm http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/08/05/its-probably-true/#comment-41384 agm Thu, 07 Aug 2008 01:24:22 +0000 http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=1270#comment-41384 Dr Phil, I have to disagree. Given that it has already happened once, your statement that one has to have the Zeroth Law to enumerate the other laws of thermodynamics just doesn't make sense. Instead, it serves to complete the bridge between thermo and dynamics by adding critical theoretical structure, a bit analogous to how Maxwell's work gave us electromagnetic wave propagation. More usefully, a principle that says energy flows from bacon to chocolate because of a temperature difference cannot define the concept of temperature because of the way it relies on you having an independent definition of temperature, or else you're begging the question. That's where Professor Kelvin, his predecessors, and his contemporaries save the day. Dr Phil,

I have to disagree. Given that it has already happened once, your statement that one has to have the Zeroth Law to enumerate the other laws of thermodynamics just doesn’t make sense. Instead, it serves to complete the bridge between thermo and dynamics by adding critical theoretical structure, a bit analogous to how Maxwell’s work gave us electromagnetic wave propagation.

More usefully, a principle that says energy flows from bacon to chocolate because of a temperature difference cannot define the concept of temperature because of the way it relies on you having an independent definition of temperature, or else you’re begging the question. That’s where Professor Kelvin, his predecessors, and his contemporaries save the day.

]]> By: Heather http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/08/05/its-probably-true/#comment-41385 Heather Wed, 06 Aug 2008 20:26:57 +0000 http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=1270#comment-41385 I saw it and just had to direct you to it. A real bacon alarm clock. http://www.mathlete.com/portfolio/wakeNbacon.php I saw it and just had to direct you to it. A real bacon alarm clock. http://www.mathlete.com/portfolio/wakeNbacon.php

]]> By: Mike Cane http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/08/05/its-probably-true/#comment-41383 Mike Cane Wed, 06 Aug 2008 17:04:15 +0000 http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=1270#comment-41383 I thought Scalzi's Law was "Nothing is so bad that it can't be improved with bacon!" I thought Scalzi’s Law was “Nothing is so bad that it can’t be improved with bacon!”

]]> By: Daniel Martin http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/08/05/its-probably-true/#comment-41382 Daniel Martin Wed, 06 Aug 2008 13:57:27 +0000 http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=1270#comment-41382 I will now blatantly blogwhore with a <a href="http://dtm.livejournal.com/37540.html" rel="nofollow">vaguely relevant post</a>. It involves bacon, and has a passing reference it Schroedinger's cat. I will now blatantly blogwhore with a vaguely relevant post. It involves bacon, and has a passing reference it Schroedinger’s cat.

]]> By: Dr. Phil http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/08/05/its-probably-true/#comment-41381 Dr. Phil Wed, 06 Aug 2008 02:28:49 +0000 http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=1270#comment-41381 agm: The secret is not to work bacon into a lecture, it's to work bacon into an exam. My first Physics exam this summer featured Iron Man, for example. (grin) Dr. Phil agm: The secret is not to work bacon into a lecture, it’s to work bacon into an exam. My first Physics exam this summer featured Iron Man, for example. (grin)

Dr. Phil

]]> By: Dr. Phil http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/08/05/its-probably-true/#comment-41380 Dr. Phil Wed, 06 Aug 2008 02:26:52 +0000 http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=1270#comment-41380 agm: And you've just defined what temperature means. "It’s that two objects in thermal equilibrium with a third object are in thermal equilibrium with each other. In other words, if you let your bacon come to room temperature while sitting in a skillet, and you let your chocolate come to room temperature sitting in the same skillet, then the bacon won’t melt the chocolate since no energy flows." i.e., they are all at the same temperature. If such a condition could not occur, then there'd be no definition of temperature which would allow the regular enumerated laws of thermodynamics to stand as written. Hence my statement of the Zeroeth Law of Thermodynamics. (grin) Dr. Phil agm: And you’ve just defined what temperature means. “It’s that two objects in thermal equilibrium with a third object are in thermal equilibrium with each other. In other words, if you let your bacon come to room temperature while sitting in a skillet, and you let your chocolate come to room temperature sitting in the same skillet, then the bacon won’t melt the chocolate since no energy flows.” i.e., they are all at the same temperature. If such a condition could not occur, then there’d be no definition of temperature which would allow the regular enumerated laws of thermodynamics to stand as written. Hence my statement of the Zeroeth Law of Thermodynamics. (grin)

Dr. Phil

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