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	<title>Comments on: Oh My God! We&#8217;re Nationalizing Businesses!</title>
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		<title>By: SplendidMarbles</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/09/17/oh-my-god-were-nationalizing-businesses/#comment-47754</link>
		<dc:creator>SplendidMarbles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 20:19:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=1767#comment-47754</guid>
		<description>So funny. So true. One of the funniest comments I&#039;ve seen so far.

I put up a cartoon about this right here:&lt;a href=&quot;http://splendidmarbles.com/2008/09/24/cartoons/banker-brigade/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://splendidmarbles.com/2008/09/24/cartoons/banker-brigade/&lt;/a&gt;. Who needs a military when you&#039;ve got these guys.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So funny. So true. One of the funniest comments I&#8217;ve seen so far.</p>
<p>I put up a cartoon about this right here:<a href="http://splendidmarbles.com/2008/09/24/cartoons/banker-brigade/" rel="nofollow">http://splendidmarbles.com/2008/09/24/cartoons/banker-brigade/</a>. Who needs a military when you&#8217;ve got these guys.</p>
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		<title>By: Nargel</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/09/17/oh-my-god-were-nationalizing-businesses/#comment-47753</link>
		<dc:creator>Nargel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:16:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Todd Stull @ 92

McCain has a consistent grasp on economics: consistently bad.  That&#039;s why he uses his long term buddy Phil Gramm&#039;s.  The fact that -that- is consistently counterproductive for the country just underscores the fact that McCain really doesn&#039;t understand.

Keating 5?  The fact that he also tried to help his buddy Keating gain a monopolistic control over water access in the desert state he was supposed to be working for, well, that simply shows that McCain has great ethical and moral shortcomings in addition to his other lacks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Todd Stull @ 92</p>
<p>McCain has a consistent grasp on economics: consistently bad.  That&#8217;s why he uses his long term buddy Phil Gramm&#8217;s.  The fact that -that- is consistently counterproductive for the country just underscores the fact that McCain really doesn&#8217;t understand.</p>
<p>Keating 5?  The fact that he also tried to help his buddy Keating gain a monopolistic control over water access in the desert state he was supposed to be working for, well, that simply shows that McCain has great ethical and moral shortcomings in addition to his other lacks.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/09/17/oh-my-god-were-nationalizing-businesses/#comment-47752</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 17:52:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>LOL. Let&#039;s see how this plays out....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL. Let&#8217;s see how this plays out&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd Stull</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/09/17/oh-my-god-were-nationalizing-businesses/#comment-47744</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd Stull</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 16:47:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Frank at 90:

Yeah great, so John McCain supported this particular bill. Wasn&#039;t he one of the Keating Five as well? If so, it just seems to indicate that he doesn&#039;t have a good consistent grasp on economics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frank at 90:</p>
<p>Yeah great, so John McCain supported this particular bill. Wasn&#8217;t he one of the Keating Five as well? If so, it just seems to indicate that he doesn&#8217;t have a good consistent grasp on economics.</p>
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		<title>By: FungiFromYuggoth</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/09/17/oh-my-god-were-nationalizing-businesses/#comment-47730</link>
		<dc:creator>FungiFromYuggoth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 16:19:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=1767#comment-47730</guid>
		<description>Frank, noticing that Freddie and Fannie were having problems in 2005 does not count as prescient.  Would you care to link to McCain&#039;s proposed reforms, and explain for the class what the former chairman of the Commerce Committee did to predict and prevent this and other recent financial debacles?

As a counter to the &quot;This is all so complicated that no one understands what&#039;s going on&quot; position, there was one SEC regulation change in 2004 that increased debt-to-net-capital rules for five firms:  Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch, Bear Stearns, and Lehman Brothers.

That&#039;s a fairly compelling happenstance, I have to say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frank, noticing that Freddie and Fannie were having problems in 2005 does not count as prescient.  Would you care to link to McCain&#8217;s proposed reforms, and explain for the class what the former chairman of the Commerce Committee did to predict and prevent this and other recent financial debacles?</p>
<p>As a counter to the &#8220;This is all so complicated that no one understands what&#8217;s going on&#8221; position, there was one SEC regulation change in 2004 that increased debt-to-net-capital rules for five firms:  Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch, Bear Stearns, and Lehman Brothers.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a fairly compelling happenstance, I have to say.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/09/17/oh-my-god-were-nationalizing-businesses/#comment-47751</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:53:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=1767#comment-47751</guid>
		<description>FungiFromYuggoth @84

&lt;i&gt;I’d recommend listening to the people who predicted this meltdown, rather than those who poo-poo’d it.&lt;/i&gt;

I agree.

From the floor of the Senate, the Congressional Record for May 25th, 2005 has John McCain saying &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.govtrack.us/congress/record.xpd?id=109-s20060525-16&amp;bill=s109-190&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the following&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Mr. President, this week Fannie Mae&#039;s regulator reported that the company&#039;s quarterly reports of profit growth over the past few years were &quot;illusions deliberately and systematically created&quot; by the company&#039;s senior management, which resulted in a $10.6 billion accounting scandal.

The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight&#039;s report goes on to say that Fannie Mae employees deliberately and intentionally manipulated financial reports to hit earnings targets in order to trigger bonuses for senior executives. In the case of Franklin Raines, Fannie Mae&#039;s former chief executive officer, OFHEO&#039;s report shows that over half of Mr. Raines&#039; compensation for the 6 years through 2003 was directly tied to meeting earnings targets. The report of financial misconduct at Fannie Mae echoes the deeply troubling $5 billion profit restatement at Freddie Mac.

The OFHEO report also states that Fannie Mae used its political power to lobby Congress in an effort to interfere with the regulator&#039;s examination of the company&#039;s accounting problems. This report comes some weeks after Freddie Mac paid a record $3.8 million fine in a settlement with the Federal Election Commission and restated lobbying disclosure reports from 2004 to 2005. These are entities that have demonstrated over and over again that they are deeply in need of reform.

For years I have been concerned about the regulatory structure that governs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac--known as Government-sponsored entities or GSEs--and the sheer magnitude of these companies and the role they play in the housing market. OFHEO&#039;s report this week does nothing to ease these concerns. In fact, the report does quite the contrary. OFHEO&#039;s report solidifies my view that the GSEs need to be reformed without delay.

I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.

I urge my colleagues to support swift action on this GSE reform legislation.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FungiFromYuggoth @84</p>
<p><i>I’d recommend listening to the people who predicted this meltdown, rather than those who poo-poo’d it.</i></p>
<p>I agree.</p>
<p>From the floor of the Senate, the Congressional Record for May 25th, 2005 has John McCain saying <a href="http://www.govtrack.us/congress/record.xpd?id=109-s20060525-16&amp;bill=s109-190" rel="nofollow">the following</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>Mr. President, this week Fannie Mae&#8217;s regulator reported that the company&#8217;s quarterly reports of profit growth over the past few years were &#8220;illusions deliberately and systematically created&#8221; by the company&#8217;s senior management, which resulted in a $10.6 billion accounting scandal.</p>
<p>The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight&#8217;s report goes on to say that Fannie Mae employees deliberately and intentionally manipulated financial reports to hit earnings targets in order to trigger bonuses for senior executives. In the case of Franklin Raines, Fannie Mae&#8217;s former chief executive officer, OFHEO&#8217;s report shows that over half of Mr. Raines&#8217; compensation for the 6 years through 2003 was directly tied to meeting earnings targets. The report of financial misconduct at Fannie Mae echoes the deeply troubling $5 billion profit restatement at Freddie Mac.</p>
<p>The OFHEO report also states that Fannie Mae used its political power to lobby Congress in an effort to interfere with the regulator&#8217;s examination of the company&#8217;s accounting problems. This report comes some weeks after Freddie Mac paid a record $3.8 million fine in a settlement with the Federal Election Commission and restated lobbying disclosure reports from 2004 to 2005. These are entities that have demonstrated over and over again that they are deeply in need of reform.</p>
<p>For years I have been concerned about the regulatory structure that governs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac&#8211;known as Government-sponsored entities or GSEs&#8211;and the sheer magnitude of these companies and the role they play in the housing market. OFHEO&#8217;s report this week does nothing to ease these concerns. In fact, the report does quite the contrary. OFHEO&#8217;s report solidifies my view that the GSEs need to be reformed without delay.</p>
<p>I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.</p>
<p>I urge my colleagues to support swift action on this GSE reform legislation.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Josh Jasper</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/09/17/oh-my-god-were-nationalizing-businesses/#comment-47750</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Jasper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:11:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=1767#comment-47750</guid>
		<description>Frank -  &lt;i&gt;Enron resulted in the disastrous Sarbane-Oxley Act&lt;/i&gt;

Enron was a disaster.  The housing bubble collapse was a disaster.  The sub-prime investment related collapse was an even bigger disaster.

Sarbane-Oxley is an annoyance.  Sarbane-Oxley hasn&#039;t lost hundreds of billions (is it trillions yet?) of market liquidity.

I&#039;m not blaming the investment banks packaging bad loans and trading them as hot stocks on on Bush or Clinton in full.  Many politicians bear culpability for deregulating the market to allow the insurance/investment unholy crossover.  And the bankers who packaged the loans, and the banks that offered them, and at a much smaller level the people who took them out, though in terms of amount of damage done, they&#039;re at the bottom.

  There&#039;s enough blame to go around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frank &#8211;  <i>Enron resulted in the disastrous Sarbane-Oxley Act</i></p>
<p>Enron was a disaster.  The housing bubble collapse was a disaster.  The sub-prime investment related collapse was an even bigger disaster.</p>
<p>Sarbane-Oxley is an annoyance.  Sarbane-Oxley hasn&#8217;t lost hundreds of billions (is it trillions yet?) of market liquidity.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not blaming the investment banks packaging bad loans and trading them as hot stocks on on Bush or Clinton in full.  Many politicians bear culpability for deregulating the market to allow the insurance/investment unholy crossover.  And the bankers who packaged the loans, and the banks that offered them, and at a much smaller level the people who took them out, though in terms of amount of damage done, they&#8217;re at the bottom.</p>
<p>  There&#8217;s enough blame to go around.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/09/17/oh-my-god-were-nationalizing-businesses/#comment-47749</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:38:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=1767#comment-47749</guid>
		<description>Thomas Allen@71
Huh?  The U.S. Gov&#039;t LOANS AIG $85B, which it will get back with interest.
The U.S. Gov&#039;t RECEIVES 80% ownership in AIG, estimated value (of that 80%)?  $800B.  How THAT qualifies as private profits and public losses is utterly beyond me.
For those who are unaware, AIG has a positive balance sheet, but doesn&#039;t have enough liquid money to FEEL SAFE in the unstable securities market right now.  They do not even OWE people the money they were begging for.  If it had gotten that far, the sky would have fallen, so they did the proper thing and asked for the money, so they could have it, in case more stuff went bad.
(in case you&#039;re further unaware of this, AIG insures securities (among tons of other things), so they are directly out money when a security type bellies up and becomes worthless, they had a very strong reason to fear more immediate payables)

nisleib @53
We already tried that, it was called &quot;HMO&quot; and nobody liked it.  You have a doctor working for a company with a financial interest in keeping you healthy (rather than a financial interest in performing services).
Mostly, people don&#039;t like them.  HMO doctors won&#039;t prescribe antibiotics when you have a cold... Costs the company money, doesn&#039;t help you.  That sort of thing annoys people, because they have a &quot;the customer is always right&quot; mentality when they&#039;re very very far from right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas Allen@71<br />
Huh?  The U.S. Gov&#8217;t LOANS AIG $85B, which it will get back with interest.<br />
The U.S. Gov&#8217;t RECEIVES 80% ownership in AIG, estimated value (of that 80%)?  $800B.  How THAT qualifies as private profits and public losses is utterly beyond me.<br />
For those who are unaware, AIG has a positive balance sheet, but doesn&#8217;t have enough liquid money to FEEL SAFE in the unstable securities market right now.  They do not even OWE people the money they were begging for.  If it had gotten that far, the sky would have fallen, so they did the proper thing and asked for the money, so they could have it, in case more stuff went bad.<br />
(in case you&#8217;re further unaware of this, AIG insures securities (among tons of other things), so they are directly out money when a security type bellies up and becomes worthless, they had a very strong reason to fear more immediate payables)</p>
<p>nisleib @53<br />
We already tried that, it was called &#8220;HMO&#8221; and nobody liked it.  You have a doctor working for a company with a financial interest in keeping you healthy (rather than a financial interest in performing services).<br />
Mostly, people don&#8217;t like them.  HMO doctors won&#8217;t prescribe antibiotics when you have a cold&#8230; Costs the company money, doesn&#8217;t help you.  That sort of thing annoys people, because they have a &#8220;the customer is always right&#8221; mentality when they&#8217;re very very far from right.</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/09/17/oh-my-god-were-nationalizing-businesses/#comment-47705</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 04:13:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=1767#comment-47705</guid>
		<description>Jeff at 12:52 -- There&#039;s another word for when the corporations and government brcome integrated...&quot;fascism&quot; (see Wikipedia).  What makes me nuts with what&#039;s happening with the sub-prime debacle and its fallout (referred to by some bloggers as &quot;the big shitpile&quot;) is that while a lot of people are losing their homes, the current administration is continuing to do what Republicans seem to do best:  privatize profits and socialize losses.  In other words, the guys at the top get to play the game by saying &quot;Heads I win, Tails you lose.&quot;  Rest assured, the top management of AIG will not go hungry or homeless;  some of the people who had their pensions invested with them, might.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff at 12:52 &#8212; There&#8217;s another word for when the corporations and government brcome integrated&#8230;&#8221;fascism&#8221; (see Wikipedia).  What makes me nuts with what&#8217;s happening with the sub-prime debacle and its fallout (referred to by some bloggers as &#8220;the big shitpile&#8221;) is that while a lot of people are losing their homes, the current administration is continuing to do what Republicans seem to do best:  privatize profits and socialize losses.  In other words, the guys at the top get to play the game by saying &#8220;Heads I win, Tails you lose.&#8221;  Rest assured, the top management of AIG will not go hungry or homeless;  some of the people who had their pensions invested with them, might.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug from Vancouver</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/09/17/oh-my-god-were-nationalizing-businesses/#comment-47671</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug from Vancouver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 03:09:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=1767#comment-47671</guid>
		<description>The GOP&#039;s dream....
Privatize the profits while socializing the bailouts (losses).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The GOP&#8217;s dream&#8230;.<br />
Privatize the profits while socializing the bailouts (losses).</p>
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