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	<title>Comments on: Emo: Older Than You Think</title>
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	<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/12/10/emo-older-than-you-think/</link>
	<description>I FORGET WHAT EIGHT WAS FOR</description>
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		<title>By: John Scalzi</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/12/10/emo-older-than-you-think/#comment-266505</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Scalzi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2011 11:38:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=5651#comment-266505</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[a student:

Yeah, no. Unless you can show me the published scientific papers showing how adolescent physiological development changes drastically every decade or so, your absolute statement above falls flat on its face right out of the gate. 

Likewise, with reference to the culture in which we live, unless you can show me how the educational experience of high school is so immensely different every ten years or so, so as to have no significant point of reference to any other decade&#039;s experience, your absolute statement above falls flat on its face a second time, almost immediately after picking itself up from its first faceplant. 

Those are two big ones; there&#039;s lots of smaller points of confluence which knock the legs out of your absolute statement equally well.

Today&#039;s lesson: Absolute statements tend to fail absolutely. 

As noted in the original piece, in many ways teenagers today &lt;i&gt;will&lt;/i&gt; have a different experience of being teenagers than other generations. But in many substantial ways, the experience will be similar to what other teenagers of other time periods have experienced as well. You&#039;re special, but not &lt;i&gt;that&lt;/i&gt; special.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>a student:</p>
<p>Yeah, no. Unless you can show me the published scientific papers showing how adolescent physiological development changes drastically every decade or so, your absolute statement above falls flat on its face right out of the gate. </p>
<p>Likewise, with reference to the culture in which we live, unless you can show me how the educational experience of high school is so immensely different every ten years or so, so as to have no significant point of reference to any other decade&#8217;s experience, your absolute statement above falls flat on its face a second time, almost immediately after picking itself up from its first faceplant. </p>
<p>Those are two big ones; there&#8217;s lots of smaller points of confluence which knock the legs out of your absolute statement equally well.</p>
<p>Today&#8217;s lesson: Absolute statements tend to fail absolutely. </p>
<p>As noted in the original piece, in many ways teenagers today <i>will</i> have a different experience of being teenagers than other generations. But in many substantial ways, the experience will be similar to what other teenagers of other time periods have experienced as well. You&#8217;re special, but not <i>that</i> special.</p>
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		<title>By: a student</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/12/10/emo-older-than-you-think/#comment-266496</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[a student]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2011 08:20:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=5651#comment-266496</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry, love... I won&#039;t take a stance on anything else you&#039;ve said about teenage writing (mostly because I know you&#039;re right and don&#039;t want to admit it - cheers), but you&#039;re absolutely wrong in this respect. I cannot agree with you in any way; being a teenager is always &lt;i&gt;completely&lt;/i&gt; different in any two given time periods. No matter what.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, love&#8230; I won&#8217;t take a stance on anything else you&#8217;ve said about teenage writing (mostly because I know you&#8217;re right and don&#8217;t want to admit it &#8211; cheers), but you&#8217;re absolutely wrong in this respect. I cannot agree with you in any way; being a teenager is always <i>completely</i> different in any two given time periods. No matter what.</p>
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		<title>By: EmoFan</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/12/10/emo-older-than-you-think/#comment-255874</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[EmoFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 May 2011 10:51:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=5651#comment-255874</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Loved the sarcasm really.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Loved the sarcasm really.</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/12/10/emo-older-than-you-think/#comment-212489</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Elizabeth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 06:15:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=5651#comment-212489</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think if you go any further back than a century or so, you&#039;ll find teenage life was very different - basically, because people at the time thought you were basically grown up at age 15, at least enough to make some serious life decisions like choosing a profession or a spouse, or having kids.  (That&#039;s, for one thing, why previous centuries had more Mozarts and Joan-of-Arcs than we do.  It&#039;s easier to be a &quot;child prodigy&quot; when you&#039;re treated like a mini-adult anyway.)  For at least the past several decades, if not the past century, though, I&#039;d say your maxim holds true, because with things like careers and marriages expected to happen later, teens are allowed to mature at a slower pace.

To illustrate what I&#039;m talking about on a smaller scale, note how in recent years,  there&#039;s been this whole phenomenon of the 20s as a &quot;second adolescence.&quot;  Until rather recently, the 20s were seen as the time when you find your job, marry, and settle down (much as the late teens were seen that way in past centuries).  Now, with more and more people going to college and then getting advanced degrees, the &quot;settling down&quot; date is pushed toward the early 30s in more educated circles.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think if you go any further back than a century or so, you&#8217;ll find teenage life was very different &#8211; basically, because people at the time thought you were basically grown up at age 15, at least enough to make some serious life decisions like choosing a profession or a spouse, or having kids.  (That&#8217;s, for one thing, why previous centuries had more Mozarts and Joan-of-Arcs than we do.  It&#8217;s easier to be a &#8220;child prodigy&#8221; when you&#8217;re treated like a mini-adult anyway.)  For at least the past several decades, if not the past century, though, I&#8217;d say your maxim holds true, because with things like careers and marriages expected to happen later, teens are allowed to mature at a slower pace.</p>
<p>To illustrate what I&#8217;m talking about on a smaller scale, note how in recent years,  there&#8217;s been this whole phenomenon of the 20s as a &#8220;second adolescence.&#8221;  Until rather recently, the 20s were seen as the time when you find your job, marry, and settle down (much as the late teens were seen that way in past centuries).  Now, with more and more people going to college and then getting advanced degrees, the &#8220;settling down&#8221; date is pushed toward the early 30s in more educated circles.</p>
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		<title>By: anonymous</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/12/10/emo-older-than-you-think/#comment-205550</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 May 2010 03:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=5651#comment-205550</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Alright, I&#039;m a 14 year old girl, so I&#039;m pretty sure a lot of people are going to skip this comment, but I still feel compelled to give my opinion.

A few months ago, I wrote an essay for school to a question that asked me, &quot;Do you think being a teenager now is more difficult now than it was in the past, or is it easier?&quot; It took me a long time to answer this, because I was so conflicted. In the end, though, I said that the difficulty of being a teenager has stayed the same. Sure, nowadays we don&#039;t have to work with our parents  on the farm to make a living(or at least most of us don&#039;t) and there&#039;s no segregation, but the feelings are the same. Teenagers still have that feeling of isolation, that feeling of not knowing what you want because every thought you have contradicts the other, those times where you say no one understands, even though you know that&#039;s probably wrong. I&#039;ve said it before, knowing that somewhere there are people going through the same things, and I&#039;m definitely not the only one feeling this way. I&#039;m not exactly sure what my point is, but I guess I&#039;m trying to say that teenagers(and sometimes even adults) don&#039;t really think rationally, because it&#039;s more about feeling. When we&#039;re mad, we hate everyone and everything in this world sucks. And when we&#039;re happy, we feel hope that the whole world isn&#039;t stupid or annoying. I say this as a teenager who&#039;s not sure if it&#039;s wrong or right, but it&#039;s what I think at the time. I&#039;m sure my opinion in this topic will change, but I haven&#039;t gotten there yet. 

And by the way, I&#039;m just saying here, that the reason teenager&#039;s think adults &quot;don&#039;t understand&quot; isn&#039;t always because we think they don&#039;t know how to keep up with the modern generation. It&#039;s because we sometimes think that their memories aren&#039;t enough for them to remember exactly what it&#039;s like to currently feel those teenager-ish feelings. 

And, and as for your article giving writing advice, it was genius. I know my writing sucks, but I think that in the future, when I&#039;m &quot;all grown up&quot; I can look back at my teenage writing and use those feelings. I know I don&#039;t have an individual voice yet, but I want to keep writing to find that voice. And when I do find that voice, I&#039;m gonna look back at my teenage feelings so that I can remember how a teenager thought and reacted to things, rather than using the blurry memories.

Extremely long, contradictory, slightly confusing comment over.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alright, I&#8217;m a 14 year old girl, so I&#8217;m pretty sure a lot of people are going to skip this comment, but I still feel compelled to give my opinion.</p>
<p>A few months ago, I wrote an essay for school to a question that asked me, &#8220;Do you think being a teenager now is more difficult now than it was in the past, or is it easier?&#8221; It took me a long time to answer this, because I was so conflicted. In the end, though, I said that the difficulty of being a teenager has stayed the same. Sure, nowadays we don&#8217;t have to work with our parents  on the farm to make a living(or at least most of us don&#8217;t) and there&#8217;s no segregation, but the feelings are the same. Teenagers still have that feeling of isolation, that feeling of not knowing what you want because every thought you have contradicts the other, those times where you say no one understands, even though you know that&#8217;s probably wrong. I&#8217;ve said it before, knowing that somewhere there are people going through the same things, and I&#8217;m definitely not the only one feeling this way. I&#8217;m not exactly sure what my point is, but I guess I&#8217;m trying to say that teenagers(and sometimes even adults) don&#8217;t really think rationally, because it&#8217;s more about feeling. When we&#8217;re mad, we hate everyone and everything in this world sucks. And when we&#8217;re happy, we feel hope that the whole world isn&#8217;t stupid or annoying. I say this as a teenager who&#8217;s not sure if it&#8217;s wrong or right, but it&#8217;s what I think at the time. I&#8217;m sure my opinion in this topic will change, but I haven&#8217;t gotten there yet. </p>
<p>And by the way, I&#8217;m just saying here, that the reason teenager&#8217;s think adults &#8220;don&#8217;t understand&#8221; isn&#8217;t always because we think they don&#8217;t know how to keep up with the modern generation. It&#8217;s because we sometimes think that their memories aren&#8217;t enough for them to remember exactly what it&#8217;s like to currently feel those teenager-ish feelings. </p>
<p>And, and as for your article giving writing advice, it was genius. I know my writing sucks, but I think that in the future, when I&#8217;m &#8220;all grown up&#8221; I can look back at my teenage writing and use those feelings. I know I don&#8217;t have an individual voice yet, but I want to keep writing to find that voice. And when I do find that voice, I&#8217;m gonna look back at my teenage feelings so that I can remember how a teenager thought and reacted to things, rather than using the blurry memories.</p>
<p>Extremely long, contradictory, slightly confusing comment over.</p>
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		<title>By: chaucolai</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/12/10/emo-older-than-you-think/#comment-199188</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[chaucolai]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Apr 2010 09:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=5651#comment-199188</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I, being a teenager just about to get into the more moody years, absolutely agree with this.

Feel free to ignore my next bit, it&#039;s me going off on a tangent (this is why I could never be any sort of a writer, I swear I have ADHD!)

I&#039;ve been told I&#039;m almost emo, but I don&#039;t quite have the right clothing, looks or music taste. I find that really amusing, that I can&#039;t be emo just because I&#039;m nonconformist! I think of myself as a teenager and nothing more... Because I can be slightly depressed (tired most of the time thanks to recurring insomnia.. probably not helped by staying up on the laptop) I get stamped with &quot;emo&quot; by some kids on my bus. Other kids stamp me with &quot;geek&quot; because I&#039;m the only girl in my computing class and I&#039;m in the extension class. There&#039;s multiple other stereotypes I&#039;ve been accused of being (most without any foot in fact!) and yet.. I don&#039;t see the point of stereotypes really when most people are a mix of all of the above.

The idea that the overall principal of being a teen.. well, as far as I can see, it&#039;s pretty similar (however, I&#039;m not exactly in any position to comment). I came on here reading your original article that sparked all this debate - the list of things teenage writers should know - and I agreed with all of it. (I came on here after being referred from deviantART, which I have a fair amount of &quot;art&quot; which also suffers from the teen Suck syndrome - or it could just be me. No idea.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I, being a teenager just about to get into the more moody years, absolutely agree with this.</p>
<p>Feel free to ignore my next bit, it&#8217;s me going off on a tangent (this is why I could never be any sort of a writer, I swear I have ADHD!)</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been told I&#8217;m almost emo, but I don&#8217;t quite have the right clothing, looks or music taste. I find that really amusing, that I can&#8217;t be emo just because I&#8217;m nonconformist! I think of myself as a teenager and nothing more&#8230; Because I can be slightly depressed (tired most of the time thanks to recurring insomnia.. probably not helped by staying up on the laptop) I get stamped with &#8220;emo&#8221; by some kids on my bus. Other kids stamp me with &#8220;geek&#8221; because I&#8217;m the only girl in my computing class and I&#8217;m in the extension class. There&#8217;s multiple other stereotypes I&#8217;ve been accused of being (most without any foot in fact!) and yet.. I don&#8217;t see the point of stereotypes really when most people are a mix of all of the above.</p>
<p>The idea that the overall principal of being a teen.. well, as far as I can see, it&#8217;s pretty similar (however, I&#8217;m not exactly in any position to comment). I came on here reading your original article that sparked all this debate &#8211; the list of things teenage writers should know &#8211; and I agreed with all of it. (I came on here after being referred from deviantART, which I have a fair amount of &#8220;art&#8221; which also suffers from the teen Suck syndrome &#8211; or it could just be me. No idea.)</p>
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		<title>By: Sorcha Fatooh</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/12/10/emo-older-than-you-think/#comment-192443</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sorcha Fatooh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 03:14:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=5651#comment-192443</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As a teen, I have two problems with this article:

1.) Bauhaus is way better than Fall Out Boy, and there can be no comparison.
2.) Shelley is way hotter than William Beckett, and there can be no comparison.

But other than that, I agree completely.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a teen, I have two problems with this article:</p>
<p>1.) Bauhaus is way better than Fall Out Boy, and there can be no comparison.<br />
2.) Shelley is way hotter than William Beckett, and there can be no comparison.</p>
<p>But other than that, I agree completely.</p>
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		<title>By: NanaLenore</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/12/10/emo-older-than-you-think/#comment-181382</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[NanaLenore]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 20:31:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=5651#comment-181382</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[50 years ago, when I was a teenager, things were not so different.  Most of us, while going about our 50s lives, wearing saddle shoes and listening to music that was transitioning from R&amp;B to Rock&#039;n&#039;Roll, were quite sure that we were the &quot;Last Generation&quot; of teenagers and that all of us would, any minute, were going to be vaporized by a USSR bomb.  Of course we all knew that the &quot;duck and cover&quot; we&#039;d practiced all through elementary school would avail us nothing.  McCarthyisn didn&#039;t help either - being told that our government was riddled with Commies who were probably helping the Enemy prepare to bomb us back to the Stone Age, if we were lucky, wasn&#039;t very comforting.  Most of us are now grandparents and great-grandparents, smiling at the angst of today&#039;s teens and knowing that &quot;This, too, shall pass.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>50 years ago, when I was a teenager, things were not so different.  Most of us, while going about our 50s lives, wearing saddle shoes and listening to music that was transitioning from R&amp;B to Rock&#8217;n'Roll, were quite sure that we were the &#8220;Last Generation&#8221; of teenagers and that all of us would, any minute, were going to be vaporized by a USSR bomb.  Of course we all knew that the &#8220;duck and cover&#8221; we&#8217;d practiced all through elementary school would avail us nothing.  McCarthyisn didn&#8217;t help either &#8211; being told that our government was riddled with Commies who were probably helping the Enemy prepare to bomb us back to the Stone Age, if we were lucky, wasn&#8217;t very comforting.  Most of us are now grandparents and great-grandparents, smiling at the angst of today&#8217;s teens and knowing that &#8220;This, too, shall pass.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Hoyt</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/12/10/emo-older-than-you-think/#comment-154964</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hoyt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 11:27:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=5651#comment-154964</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;That is truly wonderful and also so sensible that every self-respecting teenager is going to shoot it down in flames at first sight.&quot;
-MikeBon AKA Poster No.1

Hey! I am a self-respecting teenager!

I am also aware that my writing is filled with Suck.

I take no offense to any of your steps and agree that they are all very important to teaching me to reach the potential I may or may not have as a writer. In fact, I had already established in my head that I am only 17 and therefor can not be expected to have the literary prowess that is required to write a profitable stack of paper and ink.

Your step one didn&#039;t even phase me, what did however was the reaction to your help, and I think I know why.

Today we have one thing your generation didn&#039;t, something that has changed the growth of our entire generation, the internet. Through the use of the internet we teens have access to knowledge that people of your generation would have trouble finding. Also we can practice reading and writing through online groups at sites like &quot;Fanfiction.net&quot; where we teens can read &quot;fanfics&quot; and post our own, completely unaware of the almost universal standard of Suck they maintain.

These websites give people who use them a firm sense of pride in what readers call their &quot;great writing ability&quot; which in reality is not that great, but don&#039;t tell them I said that, because then they will leave long, long posts about me in their blog about how wrong I am.

That pride in their writing ability leads these particular teens to think they have what it takes to write an actual book. But I predict it will also make it much, much more difficult for them to actually become successful writers, because they are so limited by their egos and that typical teen rebelliousness that has existed for generations.

Man, that comment made me sound mature.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;That is truly wonderful and also so sensible that every self-respecting teenager is going to shoot it down in flames at first sight.&#8221;<br />
-MikeBon AKA Poster No.1</p>
<p>Hey! I am a self-respecting teenager!</p>
<p>I am also aware that my writing is filled with Suck.</p>
<p>I take no offense to any of your steps and agree that they are all very important to teaching me to reach the potential I may or may not have as a writer. In fact, I had already established in my head that I am only 17 and therefor can not be expected to have the literary prowess that is required to write a profitable stack of paper and ink.</p>
<p>Your step one didn&#8217;t even phase me, what did however was the reaction to your help, and I think I know why.</p>
<p>Today we have one thing your generation didn&#8217;t, something that has changed the growth of our entire generation, the internet. Through the use of the internet we teens have access to knowledge that people of your generation would have trouble finding. Also we can practice reading and writing through online groups at sites like &#8220;Fanfiction.net&#8221; where we teens can read &#8220;fanfics&#8221; and post our own, completely unaware of the almost universal standard of Suck they maintain.</p>
<p>These websites give people who use them a firm sense of pride in what readers call their &#8220;great writing ability&#8221; which in reality is not that great, but don&#8217;t tell them I said that, because then they will leave long, long posts about me in their blog about how wrong I am.</p>
<p>That pride in their writing ability leads these particular teens to think they have what it takes to write an actual book. But I predict it will also make it much, much more difficult for them to actually become successful writers, because they are so limited by their egos and that typical teen rebelliousness that has existed for generations.</p>
<p>Man, that comment made me sound mature.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrea</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/12/10/emo-older-than-you-think/#comment-152621</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrea]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:38:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=5651#comment-152621</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here I am, a fifteen year sulky and morose kid who scribbles terrible poetry into an ever-present notebook, and I can tell you that I completely agree with what youve said. Excellent post. I only wish that more people my age could understand all of this and get over the whole &quot;Its all so different, no one has ever experienced this before, oh woe is me&quot; thing. Once again, excellent post, and I shall go read more posts of yours now. Very witty and wise.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here I am, a fifteen year sulky and morose kid who scribbles terrible poetry into an ever-present notebook, and I can tell you that I completely agree with what youve said. Excellent post. I only wish that more people my age could understand all of this and get over the whole &#8220;Its all so different, no one has ever experienced this before, oh woe is me&#8221; thing. Once again, excellent post, and I shall go read more posts of yours now. Very witty and wise.</p>
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