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	<title>Comments on: Pissy Fans</title>
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	<description>I FORGET WHAT EIGHT WAS FOR</description>
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		<title>By: Free Storyline Porn</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/02/23/pissy-fans/#comment-304933</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Free Storyline Porn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2012 23:35:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=6390#comment-304933</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Usually I don&#039;t learn article on blogs, however I would like to say that this write-up very forced me to check out and do so! Your writing taste has been amazed me. Thanks, quite great article.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Usually I don&#8217;t learn article on blogs, however I would like to say that this write-up very forced me to check out and do so! Your writing taste has been amazed me. Thanks, quite great article.</p>
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		<title>By: Tomas</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/02/23/pissy-fans/#comment-214791</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tomas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Aug 2010 15:07:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=6390#comment-214791</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with the 305. When an author starts a series he makes a promise that there will be an ending. If he&#039;s not going to finish, then man up and just say so.

Moreover, fans have a legitimate concern and worry here.  This is a recurring theme in the both the science fiction and fantasy genres.   It&#039;s not just Robert Jordan who died prematurely. Fans constantly get the shaft.

Roger Zelazny -  Died before the 3rd Amber series was begun, after publishing several sort stories to build up to it and claiming that the last series would tie everything up.   

Frank Herbert -  Died before completing the Dune series (especially when at any nearly time he could have said &quot;The story&#039;s done&quot;).  And you know what fans got? They got the mediocre atrocities that were perpetuated by Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson - which, instead of honoring the creator and uplifting the reader, were written to appeal to the Lowest Common Denominator.

Isaac Asimov - Gave in to the fans in the 80&#039;s and restarted the Foundation series, got stuck, went back to write prequels, and then died before finishing.

Mervyn Peak - died before finishing Gormenghast. 

Robert Asprin - started an new series and then died two books in (Although he&#039;s really the exception rather than the rule. Once he started writing again, he was releasing about 2 books a year and pretty much concluded all his other stuff, then handed it off to Jody Lynn Nye)

David Gemmel -  Before he died he wrote a LOT of great stuff and but he skipped the story of the defining historical moment in his Drenai Saga. It took me years before I figured out he was never going to write it and I have to admit, I felt a little bit cheated. I still bought all his stuff because it was worth it and at least each book told it&#039;s own story.

There are many more, these are just the first few that come to mind. I&#039;m not saying it&#039;s their fault they died. I&#039;m just saying there&#039;s an implied contract when you sit down to read a series -  I&#039;ll read your series; I&#039;ll pay my money; I&#039;ll invest my time and, most importantly, I&#039;ll invest my emotions in your story and your characters and you finish it - somehow, someway, whether it&#039;s via &quot;deus ex machina&quot; or &quot;rocks fall, everyone dies&quot;. By initiating a series you promise me, the reader, a way to release the emotions I&#039;m going to invest in your work - a catharsis, even if it&#039;s a crappy catharsis.

I mean, hell, Terry Pratchett has early onset Alzheimer&#039;s and, while it has slowed him down from roughly 1 a year to roughly 1 every 2 years, he&#039;s still writing new Discworld books and new series too. If anybody has a legitimate reason to say I&#039;m done or I need a break, it&#039;s him.  I mean can you imagine being a professional writer with Alzheimer&#039;s? That would drive me up a wall.

Yes, you have the right to live your life however you want. But you also have an obligation to fulfill your promises, whether you realized you were making one or not.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the 305. When an author starts a series he makes a promise that there will be an ending. If he&#8217;s not going to finish, then man up and just say so.</p>
<p>Moreover, fans have a legitimate concern and worry here.  This is a recurring theme in the both the science fiction and fantasy genres.   It&#8217;s not just Robert Jordan who died prematurely. Fans constantly get the shaft.</p>
<p>Roger Zelazny &#8211;  Died before the 3rd Amber series was begun, after publishing several sort stories to build up to it and claiming that the last series would tie everything up.   </p>
<p>Frank Herbert &#8211;  Died before completing the Dune series (especially when at any nearly time he could have said &#8220;The story&#8217;s done&#8221;).  And you know what fans got? They got the mediocre atrocities that were perpetuated by Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson &#8211; which, instead of honoring the creator and uplifting the reader, were written to appeal to the Lowest Common Denominator.</p>
<p>Isaac Asimov &#8211; Gave in to the fans in the 80&#8242;s and restarted the Foundation series, got stuck, went back to write prequels, and then died before finishing.</p>
<p>Mervyn Peak &#8211; died before finishing Gormenghast. </p>
<p>Robert Asprin &#8211; started an new series and then died two books in (Although he&#8217;s really the exception rather than the rule. Once he started writing again, he was releasing about 2 books a year and pretty much concluded all his other stuff, then handed it off to Jody Lynn Nye)</p>
<p>David Gemmel &#8211;  Before he died he wrote a LOT of great stuff and but he skipped the story of the defining historical moment in his Drenai Saga. It took me years before I figured out he was never going to write it and I have to admit, I felt a little bit cheated. I still bought all his stuff because it was worth it and at least each book told it&#8217;s own story.</p>
<p>There are many more, these are just the first few that come to mind. I&#8217;m not saying it&#8217;s their fault they died. I&#8217;m just saying there&#8217;s an implied contract when you sit down to read a series &#8211;  I&#8217;ll read your series; I&#8217;ll pay my money; I&#8217;ll invest my time and, most importantly, I&#8217;ll invest my emotions in your story and your characters and you finish it &#8211; somehow, someway, whether it&#8217;s via &#8220;deus ex machina&#8221; or &#8220;rocks fall, everyone dies&#8221;. By initiating a series you promise me, the reader, a way to release the emotions I&#8217;m going to invest in your work &#8211; a catharsis, even if it&#8217;s a crappy catharsis.</p>
<p>I mean, hell, Terry Pratchett has early onset Alzheimer&#8217;s and, while it has slowed him down from roughly 1 a year to roughly 1 every 2 years, he&#8217;s still writing new Discworld books and new series too. If anybody has a legitimate reason to say I&#8217;m done or I need a break, it&#8217;s him.  I mean can you imagine being a professional writer with Alzheimer&#8217;s? That would drive me up a wall.</p>
<p>Yes, you have the right to live your life however you want. But you also have an obligation to fulfill your promises, whether you realized you were making one or not.</p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/02/23/pissy-fans/#comment-205291</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[chris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 May 2010 20:03:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=6390#comment-205291</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve enjoyed his books and anticipate the rest of the series.  He owes me nothing and I owe him nothing.  His figurines, comic books, calenders, ASoIaF &quot;artwork&quot;, lithographs, card games, etc. that seem to occupy so much of his time do not interest me.  

He&#039;s entitled to write about them but his opinions on the NFL draft, the wait to get through airport security, how tired he is from getting back from whatever crapCon he just attended, or his adolescent political views do not interest me.  I cannot venture a guess at how many of his fans actually enjoy watching him carry on like a college student that just discovered Facebook but I would wager they would rather just read the next installment of the series instead; despite the fact that AFFC was not as good as the first four.  

His public whining, ranting and other emotional outbursts unbecoming a man of his age make me less interested in his work.  It&#039;s sort of like a favorite aria in a language that I don&#039;t understand getting translated into english and it turns out to be simplistic and/or frivolous to the point of distraction.  I end up wishing I had never pulled back the curtain.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve enjoyed his books and anticipate the rest of the series.  He owes me nothing and I owe him nothing.  His figurines, comic books, calenders, ASoIaF &#8220;artwork&#8221;, lithographs, card games, etc. that seem to occupy so much of his time do not interest me.  </p>
<p>He&#8217;s entitled to write about them but his opinions on the NFL draft, the wait to get through airport security, how tired he is from getting back from whatever crapCon he just attended, or his adolescent political views do not interest me.  I cannot venture a guess at how many of his fans actually enjoy watching him carry on like a college student that just discovered Facebook but I would wager they would rather just read the next installment of the series instead; despite the fact that AFFC was not as good as the first four.  </p>
<p>His public whining, ranting and other emotional outbursts unbecoming a man of his age make me less interested in his work.  It&#8217;s sort of like a favorite aria in a language that I don&#8217;t understand getting translated into english and it turns out to be simplistic and/or frivolous to the point of distraction.  I end up wishing I had never pulled back the curtain.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Chira</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/02/23/pissy-fans/#comment-194165</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nick Chira]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 08:55:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=6390#comment-194165</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Do professional artists really have so little regard for their audience?  My strictly amateur attempts at creation engendered feelings of responsibility towards my work, myself, and my audience, however small.  

I can&#039;t help but feel that if your magnum opus goes unfinished, than it cannot help but be regarded as one of the greatest failures in your life to that selfsame work, audience, and indeed, yourself.

I have never written as a prospective career, but I cannot help but suspect that like any long-term project, the biggest barricade to finishing it is simply sitting down and starting on it, and continuing to sit down and start on it every day until it is done.

I also strongly suspect professional writing falls well within the realms of human endeavor such that a large percentage of the population can accurately assess what it&#039;s like.  

For example, some professions involve routinely assaulting what may be, in fact, theoretically impossible.  Now that&#039;s a tough project to work on.  Hell, in writing at least when you scrap something, you can usually salvage some of the effort that went into it, which is a damned sight more than I can say for some other failures.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do professional artists really have so little regard for their audience?  My strictly amateur attempts at creation engendered feelings of responsibility towards my work, myself, and my audience, however small.  </p>
<p>I can&#8217;t help but feel that if your magnum opus goes unfinished, than it cannot help but be regarded as one of the greatest failures in your life to that selfsame work, audience, and indeed, yourself.</p>
<p>I have never written as a prospective career, but I cannot help but suspect that like any long-term project, the biggest barricade to finishing it is simply sitting down and starting on it, and continuing to sit down and start on it every day until it is done.</p>
<p>I also strongly suspect professional writing falls well within the realms of human endeavor such that a large percentage of the population can accurately assess what it&#8217;s like.  </p>
<p>For example, some professions involve routinely assaulting what may be, in fact, theoretically impossible.  Now that&#8217;s a tough project to work on.  Hell, in writing at least when you scrap something, you can usually salvage some of the effort that went into it, which is a damned sight more than I can say for some other failures.</p>
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		<title>By: Wookus</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/02/23/pissy-fans/#comment-181294</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wookus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 15:18:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=6390#comment-181294</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I only read the first few comments off the top, and I see quite a few people being sympathetic with the author of this piece and with the creative process as a whole.  While I think most sane fans want their favorite author to be &quot;in the zone&quot; when they write, there is such a thing as &quot;too long a wait.&quot;

The sad situation of Robert Jordan (who I heard joking around at a signing a few years before his death about not wanting &quot;Wheel of Time&quot; filed alongside &quot;The Canterburry Tales&quot; in the great unfinished works section of the library, btw, talk about irony!) is just one unfortunate example of what happens when authors decide they have a 20+ year window to finish their tale.  I think the better example is Stephen King&#039;s near death encounter with a mini-van: he got right down to work on finishing The Dark Tower, and in the introduction to those books even speaks of his obligation to finish the tale.  I think that is something that authors of extended series tend to forget.  When they start publishing something as epic and well received as RJ, SK, or GRRM&#039;s works have become people buy the later volumes with the expectation that the story will reach *A* conclusion in something that resembles a timely fashion-- maybe not the ending fans will like, but a definite end to the tale.  

GRRM is pushing the envelope on that, and he may wind up finding his base of readers has shrunk a bit.  I&#039;ve had people ask me if HE died too, or if he just gave up... not something his publisher would want to hear, no?  To be fair, and to continue with the Robert Jordan example, in the time since the last GRRM book was released in 2005, a Wheel of Time book was released, Robert Jordan died, a replacement author was found, and another book has been released under the new author.  After Steven King&#039;s accident, he spat out three volumes in about as many years, one of them a genuine shelf-cracker.  Still think GRRM fans are being &quot;pissy?&quot;  

What GRRM needs to do is realize that its the fans who are being &quot;pissy&quot; who have given him enough comfort in life that he can afford side projects, creature comforts, etc.  Going into the fifth year of keeping his fans waiting I would hope he can&#039;t even look at his television without feeling like a slacker.  When he released book number one he made a promise to his fans.  If he doesn&#039;t want to keep that promise because now he&#039;s more comfortable in his life or he&#039;s just lost interest in the story then he should just say so, call the promise broken, and take the hit to his reputation... which he has already damaged with the interminable delays.  

I&#039;ll finish with this: I&#039;ve loved reading GRRM&#039;s stuff, but his lazy pen keeps me from encouraging friends to pick up his work.  In contrast, I never stopped pushing Robert Jordan&#039;s for a second, not when he was sick, not after he died: Jordan understood the value of giving your word (his flap-bio said he intended to write until they nailed shut his coffin and he delivered, God bless!).  Martin doesn&#039;t seem to value the business relationship he entered into with his fans as soon as he decided his story was going to be put on the market as a multi-part epic.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I only read the first few comments off the top, and I see quite a few people being sympathetic with the author of this piece and with the creative process as a whole.  While I think most sane fans want their favorite author to be &#8220;in the zone&#8221; when they write, there is such a thing as &#8220;too long a wait.&#8221;</p>
<p>The sad situation of Robert Jordan (who I heard joking around at a signing a few years before his death about not wanting &#8220;Wheel of Time&#8221; filed alongside &#8220;The Canterburry Tales&#8221; in the great unfinished works section of the library, btw, talk about irony!) is just one unfortunate example of what happens when authors decide they have a 20+ year window to finish their tale.  I think the better example is Stephen King&#8217;s near death encounter with a mini-van: he got right down to work on finishing The Dark Tower, and in the introduction to those books even speaks of his obligation to finish the tale.  I think that is something that authors of extended series tend to forget.  When they start publishing something as epic and well received as RJ, SK, or GRRM&#8217;s works have become people buy the later volumes with the expectation that the story will reach *A* conclusion in something that resembles a timely fashion&#8211; maybe not the ending fans will like, but a definite end to the tale.  </p>
<p>GRRM is pushing the envelope on that, and he may wind up finding his base of readers has shrunk a bit.  I&#8217;ve had people ask me if HE died too, or if he just gave up&#8230; not something his publisher would want to hear, no?  To be fair, and to continue with the Robert Jordan example, in the time since the last GRRM book was released in 2005, a Wheel of Time book was released, Robert Jordan died, a replacement author was found, and another book has been released under the new author.  After Steven King&#8217;s accident, he spat out three volumes in about as many years, one of them a genuine shelf-cracker.  Still think GRRM fans are being &#8220;pissy?&#8221;  </p>
<p>What GRRM needs to do is realize that its the fans who are being &#8220;pissy&#8221; who have given him enough comfort in life that he can afford side projects, creature comforts, etc.  Going into the fifth year of keeping his fans waiting I would hope he can&#8217;t even look at his television without feeling like a slacker.  When he released book number one he made a promise to his fans.  If he doesn&#8217;t want to keep that promise because now he&#8217;s more comfortable in his life or he&#8217;s just lost interest in the story then he should just say so, call the promise broken, and take the hit to his reputation&#8230; which he has already damaged with the interminable delays.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll finish with this: I&#8217;ve loved reading GRRM&#8217;s stuff, but his lazy pen keeps me from encouraging friends to pick up his work.  In contrast, I never stopped pushing Robert Jordan&#8217;s for a second, not when he was sick, not after he died: Jordan understood the value of giving your word (his flap-bio said he intended to write until they nailed shut his coffin and he delivered, God bless!).  Martin doesn&#8217;t seem to value the business relationship he entered into with his fans as soon as he decided his story was going to be put on the market as a multi-part epic.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Sparhawk</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/02/23/pissy-fans/#comment-176953</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Sparhawk]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:57:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=6390#comment-176953</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve just read several (sorry not all 303) but several and so many people still don&#039;t seem to &quot;get it&quot; except for the other writers/artist among the comments. Like Romans at the coliseum, entertain me with your talent, whatever the price. 
God forbid you live your life for the living of your life. You do not exist but to entertain me. It makes me think of Frank Herbert It&#039;s not saddening that the man died before he finished the Dune series. I just hope he didn’t die before finishing his life. 
Thank you Sir for your stories they enrich us and entertain us. 
Please have a great day.
Bob]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve just read several (sorry not all 303) but several and so many people still don&#8217;t seem to &#8220;get it&#8221; except for the other writers/artist among the comments. Like Romans at the coliseum, entertain me with your talent, whatever the price.<br />
God forbid you live your life for the living of your life. You do not exist but to entertain me. It makes me think of Frank Herbert It&#8217;s not saddening that the man died before he finished the Dune series. I just hope he didn’t die before finishing his life.<br />
Thank you Sir for your stories they enrich us and entertain us.<br />
Please have a great day.<br />
Bob</p>
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		<title>By: Duffy Pratt</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/02/23/pissy-fans/#comment-153898</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Duffy Pratt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 02:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=6390#comment-153898</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Of course, I agree that Martin can do whatever he wants.  By the same token, so can I.  I haven&#039;t complained too much about the delay in getting out the second half of the fourth book.  All I can say is that Martin and Jordan have made me resolve never to buy any volume of a series until the series is finished.  (I make exceptions for series where each book also works as a stand-alone product.)  So Martin will no longer be seeing any of my money until he finishes ASoIaF.

I also think the best hope for the series being finished is if it takes off as a hit on cable TV.  Fans not be able to force him to finish up, but the TV producers will have a bit more leverage.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, I agree that Martin can do whatever he wants.  By the same token, so can I.  I haven&#8217;t complained too much about the delay in getting out the second half of the fourth book.  All I can say is that Martin and Jordan have made me resolve never to buy any volume of a series until the series is finished.  (I make exceptions for series where each book also works as a stand-alone product.)  So Martin will no longer be seeing any of my money until he finishes ASoIaF.</p>
<p>I also think the best hope for the series being finished is if it takes off as a hit on cable TV.  Fans not be able to force him to finish up, but the TV producers will have a bit more leverage.</p>
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		<title>By: John Scalzi</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/02/23/pissy-fans/#comment-145276</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Scalzi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 13:10:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=6390#comment-145276</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[nin:

&quot;Isn’t authors complaining about their fans not being good/rational/awesome enough just as idiotic as fans complaining their idols aren’t writing fast enough?&quot;

No.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nin:</p>
<p>&#8220;Isn’t authors complaining about their fans not being good/rational/awesome enough just as idiotic as fans complaining their idols aren’t writing fast enough?&#8221;</p>
<p>No.</p>
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		<title>By: nin</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/02/23/pissy-fans/#comment-145274</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 12:02:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=6390#comment-145274</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Isn&#039;t authors complaining about their fans not being good/rational/awesome enough just as idiotic as fans complaining their idols aren&#039;t writing fast enough? Is pissy authors better than pissy fans?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t authors complaining about their fans not being good/rational/awesome enough just as idiotic as fans complaining their idols aren&#8217;t writing fast enough? Is pissy authors better than pissy fans?</p>
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		<title>By: John Scalzi</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/02/23/pissy-fans/#comment-140702</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Scalzi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 12:10:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=6390#comment-140702</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Austin Hastings:

&quot;If GRRM can’t carry the freight, that’s okay. It sort of pushes him down into 2nd tier status behind the economic rock stars that can churn 3 or 4 books a year.&quot;

You know, your whole post would be a lot more interesting if the books sales in question supported anything you&#039;re saying. But they don&#039;t. I just had a friend check BookScan, and it turns out that this week (just as an example), George Martin has sold a third more books than John Ringo, they&#039;re about even in sales for the year, and (not surprisingly) in aggregate Martin&#039;s far ahead. And more to the point, Martin&#039;s work is selling as well as (or better than) the work of quite a number of writers you might care to name who produce books on a more regular basis, and even more to the point the books he has sell consistently, week in and week out. 

So before you go declaring the new era in publishing, etc, make sure the facts support your assertions. And the facts are George Martin is a top-tier seller, has been for years and is very likely to continue to be for some time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Austin Hastings:</p>
<p>&#8220;If GRRM can’t carry the freight, that’s okay. It sort of pushes him down into 2nd tier status behind the economic rock stars that can churn 3 or 4 books a year.&#8221;</p>
<p>You know, your whole post would be a lot more interesting if the books sales in question supported anything you&#8217;re saying. But they don&#8217;t. I just had a friend check BookScan, and it turns out that this week (just as an example), George Martin has sold a third more books than John Ringo, they&#8217;re about even in sales for the year, and (not surprisingly) in aggregate Martin&#8217;s far ahead. And more to the point, Martin&#8217;s work is selling as well as (or better than) the work of quite a number of writers you might care to name who produce books on a more regular basis, and even more to the point the books he has sell consistently, week in and week out. </p>
<p>So before you go declaring the new era in publishing, etc, make sure the facts support your assertions. And the facts are George Martin is a top-tier seller, has been for years and is very likely to continue to be for some time.</p>
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