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	<title>Comments on: Hugo Voter Packet Update, 4/6/09</title>
	<atom:link href="http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/04/06/hugo-voter-packet-update-4609/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/04/06/hugo-voter-packet-update-4609/</link>
	<description>I FORGET WHAT EIGHT WAS FOR</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Tully</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/04/06/hugo-voter-packet-update-4609/#comment-140227</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tully]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Apr 2009 00:40:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=6957#comment-140227</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;I think that what you’re perceiving as a potential bug is actually a feature.&lt;/i&gt;

Yep. What&#039;s the perverse downside of the people voting having actually read the works being voted on? None that I can see.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I think that what you’re perceiving as a potential bug is actually a feature.</i></p>
<p>Yep. What&#8217;s the perverse downside of the people voting having actually read the works being voted on? None that I can see.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Standlee</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/04/06/hugo-voter-packet-update-4609/#comment-140212</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin Standlee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 23:19:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=6957#comment-140212</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh, I know what a perverse incentive is, but I didn&#039;t see how it applied here. We constantly hear people complaining that the members aren&#039;t taking the time to thoughtfully evaluate the nominees and give a considered opinion of them. Well, if lots of people join Worldcon as supporting members just to read the works and them vote on them, that means the percetage of engaged, considerate voters will increase, and how could that be a bad thing. The fact that is also generates a little bit more income for Worldcons is a bonus.

I think that what you&#039;re perceiving as a potential bug is actually a feature.

It will be interesting to learn (if possible) how many people join Anticipation only to get the nominee package.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I know what a perverse incentive is, but I didn&#8217;t see how it applied here. We constantly hear people complaining that the members aren&#8217;t taking the time to thoughtfully evaluate the nominees and give a considered opinion of them. Well, if lots of people join Worldcon as supporting members just to read the works and them vote on them, that means the percetage of engaged, considerate voters will increase, and how could that be a bad thing. The fact that is also generates a little bit more income for Worldcons is a bonus.</p>
<p>I think that what you&#8217;re perceiving as a potential bug is actually a feature.</p>
<p>It will be interesting to learn (if possible) how many people join Anticipation only to get the nominee package.</p>
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		<title>By: aphrael</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/04/06/hugo-voter-packet-update-4609/#comment-140211</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[aphrael]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 23:14:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=6957#comment-140211</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Perverse incentive&quot; is an economics term, meaning roughly, an unintended incentive with unpredicted, probably bad, results.

In this case, it means the awards risk getting swamped by people who only became members in order to get the (relatively) cheap deal on the reading, which could - if the numbers ran high enough - lead to a very different voting dynamic.

Maybe I overestimate the risk of that; and maybe the risk isn&#039;t actually of concern.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Perverse incentive&#8221; is an economics term, meaning roughly, an unintended incentive with unpredicted, probably bad, results.</p>
<p>In this case, it means the awards risk getting swamped by people who only became members in order to get the (relatively) cheap deal on the reading, which could &#8211; if the numbers ran high enough &#8211; lead to a very different voting dynamic.</p>
<p>Maybe I overestimate the risk of that; and maybe the risk isn&#8217;t actually of concern.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Kevin Standlee</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/04/06/hugo-voter-packet-update-4609/#comment-139986</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin Standlee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 22:29:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=6957#comment-139986</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[aphrael:

No offense taken.  What&#039;s the problem?  And what do you mean &quot;a perverse incentive?&quot;  Personally, I see nothing wrong with giving people an incentive to read all of the nominated works and then having those people vote on the Hugos.  That probably makes them better informed than a significant number of the already-eligible members.  And it&#039;s great for the individual Worldcon as well, because supporting memberships do actually contribute a useful support to the Worldcon, on account of their variable cost isn&#039;t very high.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>aphrael:</p>
<p>No offense taken.  What&#8217;s the problem?  And what do you mean &#8220;a perverse incentive?&#8221;  Personally, I see nothing wrong with giving people an incentive to read all of the nominated works and then having those people vote on the Hugos.  That probably makes them better informed than a significant number of the already-eligible members.  And it&#8217;s great for the individual Worldcon as well, because supporting memberships do actually contribute a useful support to the Worldcon, on account of their variable cost isn&#8217;t very high.</p>
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		<title>By: aphrael</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/04/06/hugo-voter-packet-update-4609/#comment-139983</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[aphrael]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 22:24:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=6957#comment-139983</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kevin, no offense intended, but the ability to read the nominated works for free &lt;em&gt;was precisely what motivated me to buy a membership&lt;/em&gt;.

This suggests that the voter packet is setting up a perverse incentive.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin, no offense intended, but the ability to read the nominated works for free <em>was precisely what motivated me to buy a membership</em>.</p>
<p>This suggests that the voter packet is setting up a perverse incentive.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Standlee</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/04/06/hugo-voter-packet-update-4609/#comment-139821</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin Standlee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 16:32:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=6957#comment-139821</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[M.A.: You can still &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.anticipationsf.ca/English/Membership&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;buy a supporting membership&lt;/a&gt; for US$50, which not only gives you the right to vote on this year&#039;s Final Hugo Ballot, but also the right to nominate next year (but not vote on the final ballot in 2010), as well as the Worldcon&#039;s publications. But ignoring all that, being able to read all of the nominated works for free makes it a huge bargain in it&#039;s own right, with the voting rights thrown in for extra on top.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>M.A.: You can still <a href="http://www.anticipationsf.ca/English/Membership" rel="nofollow">buy a supporting membership</a> for US$50, which not only gives you the right to vote on this year&#8217;s Final Hugo Ballot, but also the right to nominate next year (but not vote on the final ballot in 2010), as well as the Worldcon&#8217;s publications. But ignoring all that, being able to read all of the nominated works for free makes it a huge bargain in it&#8217;s own right, with the voting rights thrown in for extra on top.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Beeler</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/04/06/hugo-voter-packet-update-4609/#comment-139635</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeff Beeler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 22:44:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=6957#comment-139635</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[John nobody can deny you are a science fiction fan now.

Thanks for this tremendous amount of work!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John nobody can deny you are a science fiction fan now.</p>
<p>Thanks for this tremendous amount of work!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: wonderer</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/04/06/hugo-voter-packet-update-4609/#comment-139605</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[wonderer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 20:30:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=6957#comment-139605</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What file format is the packet in? I ask because I know a visually impaired fan who would love to take part if his screen-reader software can handle the files.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What file format is the packet in? I ask because I know a visually impaired fan who would love to take part if his screen-reader software can handle the files.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: M.A.</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/04/06/hugo-voter-packet-update-4609/#comment-139589</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[M.A.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 19:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=6957#comment-139589</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh.  Rats.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh.  Rats.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jeff Orth</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/04/06/hugo-voter-packet-update-4609/#comment-139561</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeff Orth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 18:23:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=6957#comment-139561</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[M.A.

Your membership in last years con, Denvention, allowed you to nominate.  You must be at least a supporting member to vote in the Finals.

JeffO]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>M.A.</p>
<p>Your membership in last years con, Denvention, allowed you to nominate.  You must be at least a supporting member to vote in the Finals.</p>
<p>JeffO</p>
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