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	<title>Comments on: Ohio Libraries and Fiscal Amputation</title>
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	<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/06/23/ohio-libraries-and-fiscal-amputation/</link>
	<description>DEVISING A SYSTEM FOR REMEMBERING EVERYTHING</description>
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		<title>By: Jesse</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/06/23/ohio-libraries-and-fiscal-amputation/#comment-152821</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:05:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=7771#comment-152821</guid>
		<description>Of course we should cut the budget for libraries.  Everyone gripes about the state of education in the US.  It&#039;s not like libraries are used for anything like education.  They are just recycled trees with strange markings made on the material.  If only the politicians knew how to use these strange markings to communicate wisdom and knowledge we would have lawmakers making educated decisions about these strange places called libraries.  If only someone would teach politicians to READ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course we should cut the budget for libraries.  Everyone gripes about the state of education in the US.  It&#8217;s not like libraries are used for anything like education.  They are just recycled trees with strange markings made on the material.  If only the politicians knew how to use these strange markings to communicate wisdom and knowledge we would have lawmakers making educated decisions about these strange places called libraries.  If only someone would teach politicians to READ.</p>
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		<title>By: Cassie</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/06/23/ohio-libraries-and-fiscal-amputation/#comment-152454</link>
		<dc:creator>Cassie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 18:23:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=7771#comment-152454</guid>
		<description>Dara

I think it depends on whether the library expects to re-open.  

If the closing library is part of a system, the assets would be disbursed to other libraries or stored until reopening.

If the library is expected to close permanently, it would be up to the local governing body.  Probably the shelving and equipment would be sold, maybe the books in a massive open to the public or perhaps in lots as an auction.

Any way you look at it, it would a sad, sad thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dara</p>
<p>I think it depends on whether the library expects to re-open.  </p>
<p>If the closing library is part of a system, the assets would be disbursed to other libraries or stored until reopening.</p>
<p>If the library is expected to close permanently, it would be up to the local governing body.  Probably the shelving and equipment would be sold, maybe the books in a massive open to the public or perhaps in lots as an auction.</p>
<p>Any way you look at it, it would a sad, sad thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Dara</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/06/23/ohio-libraries-and-fiscal-amputation/#comment-152452</link>
		<dc:creator>Dara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 18:12:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=7771#comment-152452</guid>
		<description>I live in Ohio and I probably go to the library at twice a week; some weeks it&#039;s three or four times. I&#039;m blessed to (currently) have a library in walking distance.

That may not be the case soon :(

I guess I wonder something too (and it&#039;s probably a stupid question):

If a branch closes, what happens to all the books there? Do they sell them or disburse them to other branches?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I live in Ohio and I probably go to the library at twice a week; some weeks it&#8217;s three or four times. I&#8217;m blessed to (currently) have a library in walking distance.</p>
<p>That may not be the case soon :(</p>
<p>I guess I wonder something too (and it&#8217;s probably a stupid question):</p>
<p>If a branch closes, what happens to all the books there? Do they sell them or disburse them to other branches?</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Burnap</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/06/23/ohio-libraries-and-fiscal-amputation/#comment-152152</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Burnap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:26:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=7771#comment-152152</guid>
		<description>mythago@54: If given a choice between library cuts and cuts to children&#039;s health care programs (as are being bandied about in California) which would you choose?

Should poor kids in Oakland have access to awesome libraries?  Of course!  Do we give awesome libraries for poor kids in Oakland priority over decent health care for poor kids in Oakland, or good education for poor kids in Oakland, or safe streets for poor kids in Oakland etc, etc?  I am not so sure...

That&#039;s the thing: you can&#039;t budget by saying &quot;This thing is good...it must not be cut!!&quot;  That thinking is why California&#039;s budget is screwed up.  You must budget by saying &quot;This has priority over that&quot;.

Kelly@42: If I were in Ohio, I&#039;d be all for that.  But would the savings be enough to prevent library cuts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mythago@54: If given a choice between library cuts and cuts to children&#8217;s health care programs (as are being bandied about in California) which would you choose?</p>
<p>Should poor kids in Oakland have access to awesome libraries?  Of course!  Do we give awesome libraries for poor kids in Oakland priority over decent health care for poor kids in Oakland, or good education for poor kids in Oakland, or safe streets for poor kids in Oakland etc, etc?  I am not so sure&#8230;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the thing: you can&#8217;t budget by saying &#8220;This thing is good&#8230;it must not be cut!!&#8221;  That thinking is why California&#8217;s budget is screwed up.  You must budget by saying &#8220;This has priority over that&#8221;.</p>
<p>Kelly@42: If I were in Ohio, I&#8217;d be all for that.  But would the savings be enough to prevent library cuts?</p>
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		<title>By: David Broudy</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/06/23/ohio-libraries-and-fiscal-amputation/#comment-152140</link>
		<dc:creator>David Broudy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:41:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=7771#comment-152140</guid>
		<description>&quot;Many MA. residents do drive those roads in order to buy things without the high MA state sales tax.
The roads in MA are nothing to brag about, either.&quot;

Latter: OK, you got me.

Former: &quot;high&quot; tax... right. MA sales tax is 5%, lower than most. But yeah, for some thing e.g. smokes I would make the drive to Salem NH (over their shitty roads) to save $25 on a carton, but now I just make my own.

True story: former cow-orker decided he was fed up with &quot;Taxachusetts&quot; so he moved just over the NH line. His property tax more than doubled, he still had to pay MA income tax as a non-resident employed in MA, and now he gets to pay for private school because the public one is shitty and broke. WIN!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Many MA. residents do drive those roads in order to buy things without the high MA state sales tax.<br />
The roads in MA are nothing to brag about, either.&#8221;</p>
<p>Latter: OK, you got me.</p>
<p>Former: &#8220;high&#8221; tax&#8230; right. MA sales tax is 5%, lower than most. But yeah, for some thing e.g. smokes I would make the drive to Salem NH (over their shitty roads) to save $25 on a carton, but now I just make my own.</p>
<p>True story: former cow-orker decided he was fed up with &#8220;Taxachusetts&#8221; so he moved just over the NH line. His property tax more than doubled, he still had to pay MA income tax as a non-resident employed in MA, and now he gets to pay for private school because the public one is shitty and broke. WIN!</p>
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		<title>By: PJ the Barbarian</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/06/23/ohio-libraries-and-fiscal-amputation/#comment-151919</link>
		<dc:creator>PJ the Barbarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:12:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=7771#comment-151919</guid>
		<description>I think someone also needs to point out to these Buckeye reps that this move is just another in a long line of making their state less attractive. I feel like Ohio has been making itself less and less attractive to business, at exactly a time when a state should be making itself more so - a little research suggests that between the 70s and today, Ohio went from being low-tax and business-friendly to being high-tax and in the bottom 5 in terms of business-friendliness. 

Not that I&#039;m a small-government, pro-business zealot, but I would think that being in the bottom five would be a wake up call that maybe we should get out of the bottom if we want to see some job creation.

So maybe instead of cutting the library they could ask themselves, what exactly is it that we do that bothers employers so much? Maybe they&#039;ll find something better to cut in the answer to that question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think someone also needs to point out to these Buckeye reps that this move is just another in a long line of making their state less attractive. I feel like Ohio has been making itself less and less attractive to business, at exactly a time when a state should be making itself more so &#8211; a little research suggests that between the 70s and today, Ohio went from being low-tax and business-friendly to being high-tax and in the bottom 5 in terms of business-friendliness. </p>
<p>Not that I&#8217;m a small-government, pro-business zealot, but I would think that being in the bottom five would be a wake up call that maybe we should get out of the bottom if we want to see some job creation.</p>
<p>So maybe instead of cutting the library they could ask themselves, what exactly is it that we do that bothers employers so much? Maybe they&#8217;ll find something better to cut in the answer to that question.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/06/23/ohio-libraries-and-fiscal-amputation/#comment-151883</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 04:42:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=7771#comment-151883</guid>
		<description>School libraries are getting hit everywhere also.  This is crazy because library use goes up during a recession.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>School libraries are getting hit everywhere also.  This is crazy because library use goes up during a recession.</p>
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		<title>By: mythago</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/06/23/ohio-libraries-and-fiscal-amputation/#comment-151882</link>
		<dc:creator>mythago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 04:14:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=7771#comment-151882</guid>
		<description>&quot;Local funding&quot; is a dogwhistle for &quot;screw those loser poor people who aren&#039;t Good Upstanding Taxpayers, like me&quot;.  

&lt;blockquote&gt;Yeah, as another California resident, it’s hard to take a 30% library cut seriously. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Uh, as a California resident, I would take a 30% library cut very seriously indeed. Perhaps you&#039;re all snuggly at home with your broadband and your printer and your walls of books, but not every Californian has those things - or can afford those things. Yes, of course we are facing all kinds of horrible cuts, but I truly, really don&#039;t understand this one-upsmanship of &quot;you think THAT&#039;s bad....&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Local funding&#8221; is a dogwhistle for &#8220;screw those loser poor people who aren&#8217;t Good Upstanding Taxpayers, like me&#8221;.  </p>
<blockquote><p>Yeah, as another California resident, it’s hard to take a 30% library cut seriously. </p></blockquote>
<p>Uh, as a California resident, I would take a 30% library cut very seriously indeed. Perhaps you&#8217;re all snuggly at home with your broadband and your printer and your walls of books, but not every Californian has those things &#8211; or can afford those things. Yes, of course we are facing all kinds of horrible cuts, but I truly, really don&#8217;t understand this one-upsmanship of &#8220;you think THAT&#8217;s bad&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Kosmicki</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/06/23/ohio-libraries-and-fiscal-amputation/#comment-151878</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Kosmicki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 02:58:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=7771#comment-151878</guid>
		<description>Here in Nebraska, the libraries are locally funded, with a state Library Commission that provides some services like databases and training that can be best negotiated or presented from a single statewide entity.  But the majority of the services, and all of the budget, is local.

My particular hometown likes to pride itself on its school system, but we still had to vote 3 or 4 times on a school levy to make some necessary updates.  The library levy, on the other hand, passed easily on the first vote. Yes, it was bundled with a couple of other things in terms of overall community service upgrades, but the levy was mainly to expand the library building.

But then again, we are a growing county/city in Nebraska. I&#039;m sure if you talked to some of the more rural counties/communities that are bleeding population, they&#039;d have a different story to tell. Local funding is great when there&#039;s support and it works, but it&#039;s also a trap when you&#039;re in a downward financial spiral, as most of the country is right now.

this is clearly preaching to the choir on a blog like this, but i&#039;d absolutely cut parks and recreation services before libraries.  Just like I&#039;d cut out the travel and convention bureau before I&#039;d cut the schools or fire department.  All of those services are nice (and I know, I know, cutting tourism just increases the loss of jobs, etc), but there&#039;s nice to have and there&#039;s essential public services.  Free or low-cost access to information is an essential public service.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here in Nebraska, the libraries are locally funded, with a state Library Commission that provides some services like databases and training that can be best negotiated or presented from a single statewide entity.  But the majority of the services, and all of the budget, is local.</p>
<p>My particular hometown likes to pride itself on its school system, but we still had to vote 3 or 4 times on a school levy to make some necessary updates.  The library levy, on the other hand, passed easily on the first vote. Yes, it was bundled with a couple of other things in terms of overall community service upgrades, but the levy was mainly to expand the library building.</p>
<p>But then again, we are a growing county/city in Nebraska. I&#8217;m sure if you talked to some of the more rural counties/communities that are bleeding population, they&#8217;d have a different story to tell. Local funding is great when there&#8217;s support and it works, but it&#8217;s also a trap when you&#8217;re in a downward financial spiral, as most of the country is right now.</p>
<p>this is clearly preaching to the choir on a blog like this, but i&#8217;d absolutely cut parks and recreation services before libraries.  Just like I&#8217;d cut out the travel and convention bureau before I&#8217;d cut the schools or fire department.  All of those services are nice (and I know, I know, cutting tourism just increases the loss of jobs, etc), but there&#8217;s nice to have and there&#8217;s essential public services.  Free or low-cost access to information is an essential public service.</p>
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		<title>By: Edward Trimnell</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/06/23/ohio-libraries-and-fiscal-amputation/#comment-151873</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward Trimnell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 02:36:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=7771#comment-151873</guid>
		<description>I have to side with Kelly @42 on this one. I remember about 10 years ago when Hamilton County poured all that money into Cinergy Stadium:

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/1997/08/04/tidbits.html

Granted, the times and particular branch of government involved were different. But once again we see skewed priorities: Cut libraries by 30% statewide---but don&#039;t touch the Football Hall of Fame in Canton. (I hadn&#039;t known that the Pro Football Hall of Fame was state-funded. Do we really need to publicly subsidize football at all?)

Also, those of us who are economic conservatives have to remember that there are some things that government really does do better. I don&#039;t want to see the government running General Motors or Citigroup. But strong public schools and publicly funded libraries are as American as apple pie. 

Moreover, while many branches of government *are* wasteful, most libraries operate lean and mean. I visit my local library every week, and I have yet to see a librarian on a coffee break. Nor do my librarians drive to work in Lexuses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to side with Kelly @42 on this one. I remember about 10 years ago when Hamilton County poured all that money into Cinergy Stadium:</p>
<p><a href="http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/1997/08/04/tidbits.html" rel="nofollow">http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/1997/08/04/tidbits.html</a></p>
<p>Granted, the times and particular branch of government involved were different. But once again we see skewed priorities: Cut libraries by 30% statewide&#8212;but don&#8217;t touch the Football Hall of Fame in Canton. (I hadn&#8217;t known that the Pro Football Hall of Fame was state-funded. Do we really need to publicly subsidize football at all?)</p>
<p>Also, those of us who are economic conservatives have to remember that there are some things that government really does do better. I don&#8217;t want to see the government running General Motors or Citigroup. But strong public schools and publicly funded libraries are as American as apple pie. </p>
<p>Moreover, while many branches of government *are* wasteful, most libraries operate lean and mean. I visit my local library every week, and I have yet to see a librarian on a coffee break. Nor do my librarians drive to work in Lexuses.</p>
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