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	<title>Comments on: My Comment Deletions Policy</title>
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	<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/09/30/my-comment-deletions-policy/</link>
	<description>DEVISING A SYSTEM FOR REMEMBERING EVERYTHING</description>
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		<title>By: Matthew Brown</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/09/30/my-comment-deletions-policy/#comment-168790</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 23:01:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=8649#comment-168790</guid>
		<description>Wikipedia gets a lot of these.  It&#039;s been generally policy to let people erase themselves in terms of identifiability and remove things.  I&#039;m not sure I agree, but the policy is generally that if making things forgotten allows someone to move on rather than continuing to obsess, it&#039;s a good thing.

I was always, though, more on the side of &quot;You were an asshole on Wikipedia for six months.  Does it hurt, now?  Oh well.  Shouldn&#039;t have said those things.&quot;  But it generally got voted down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wikipedia gets a lot of these.  It&#8217;s been generally policy to let people erase themselves in terms of identifiability and remove things.  I&#8217;m not sure I agree, but the policy is generally that if making things forgotten allows someone to move on rather than continuing to obsess, it&#8217;s a good thing.</p>
<p>I was always, though, more on the side of &#8220;You were an asshole on Wikipedia for six months.  Does it hurt, now?  Oh well.  Shouldn&#8217;t have said those things.&#8221;  But it generally got voted down.</p>
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		<title>By: Odalchini</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/09/30/my-comment-deletions-policy/#comment-168608</link>
		<dc:creator>Odalchini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 09:39:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=8649#comment-168608</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t mind being unable to delete my comments, but I&#039;d like to be able to edit them, even for a short time after posting. Nothing&#039;s more annoying than the typo (invisible, of course, on preview but instantly, glaringly obvious as soon as I click Submit) which will remain in the archives to my discredit to the end of time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t mind being unable to delete my comments, but I&#8217;d like to be able to edit them, even for a short time after posting. Nothing&#8217;s more annoying than the typo (invisible, of course, on preview but instantly, glaringly obvious as soon as I click Submit) which will remain in the archives to my discredit to the end of time.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Stewart</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/09/30/my-comment-deletions-policy/#comment-168602</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Stewart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 07:08:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=8649#comment-168602</guid>
		<description>On disemvoweling - I saw a car today with a license plate &quot;ND VWLS&quot; that obviously had gotten on some moderator&#039;s bad side...

On Google Groups postings from before Google - I&#039;m a relative newbie, having only been on Netnews since 1981, before it became Usenet, before DejaNews acquired significantly large archives of the contents, before Google acquired DejaNews and Googleized it.  (I was probably on mailing lists a bit earlier, but had spent a couple of years mostly in mainframeland, and never had an Author account on Plato.)  So on the average, for anything I might regret saying today, I&#039;ve probably said things far more regrettable over the years, and you&#039;re only not seeing them because my email address has changed...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On disemvoweling &#8211; I saw a car today with a license plate &#8220;ND VWLS&#8221; that obviously had gotten on some moderator&#8217;s bad side&#8230;</p>
<p>On Google Groups postings from before Google &#8211; I&#8217;m a relative newbie, having only been on Netnews since 1981, before it became Usenet, before DejaNews acquired significantly large archives of the contents, before Google acquired DejaNews and Googleized it.  (I was probably on mailing lists a bit earlier, but had spent a couple of years mostly in mainframeland, and never had an Author account on Plato.)  So on the average, for anything I might regret saying today, I&#8217;ve probably said things far more regrettable over the years, and you&#8217;re only not seeing them because my email address has changed&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Claire</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/09/30/my-comment-deletions-policy/#comment-168382</link>
		<dc:creator>Claire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 02:55:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=8649#comment-168382</guid>
		<description>WAAAAY back at #27: There is a breathalyzer attachment for the keyboard; it&#039;s called Mail Goggles!  It&#039;s an add-on for Gmail that you can activate.  If you want to send e-mail during certain hours, it makes you answer a series of math questions before you can send your mail.

http://arstechnica.com/web/news/2008/10/mail-goggles-a-breathlyzer-test-for-your-gmail.ars</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WAAAAY back at #27: There is a breathalyzer attachment for the keyboard; it&#8217;s called Mail Goggles!  It&#8217;s an add-on for Gmail that you can activate.  If you want to send e-mail during certain hours, it makes you answer a series of math questions before you can send your mail.</p>
<p><a href="http://arstechnica.com/web/news/2008/10/mail-goggles-a-breathlyzer-test-for-your-gmail.ars" rel="nofollow">http://arstechnica.com/web/news/2008/10/mail-goggles-a-breathlyzer-test-for-your-gmail.ars</a></p>
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		<title>By: rayyy</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/09/30/my-comment-deletions-policy/#comment-168113</link>
		<dc:creator>rayyy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 18:32:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=8649#comment-168113</guid>
		<description>Gosh, my witterings will live for ever?  For the sake of the children, say it aint so.

I was &lt;i&gt;hoping&lt;/i&gt; they&#039;d fade away like old VHS tapes.  Not so much for my sake, but to spare future generations the noise and static of this one.

Hey, maybe the future owners of Google, Wayback, MySpace, Facebook, et. al. will just &quot;tape over them&quot;, so to speak with new chatter?  A bit like ruthlessly clearing a house full of dated, unwanted furniture bequeathed by a dead relative.  Yeah, it meant a lot to the dead relative, but nobody has house-room for it now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gosh, my witterings will live for ever?  For the sake of the children, say it aint so.</p>
<p>I was <i>hoping</i> they&#8217;d fade away like old VHS tapes.  Not so much for my sake, but to spare future generations the noise and static of this one.</p>
<p>Hey, maybe the future owners of Google, Wayback, MySpace, Facebook, et. al. will just &#8220;tape over them&#8221;, so to speak with new chatter?  A bit like ruthlessly clearing a house full of dated, unwanted furniture bequeathed by a dead relative.  Yeah, it meant a lot to the dead relative, but nobody has house-room for it now.</p>
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		<title>By: dance</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/09/30/my-comment-deletions-policy/#comment-167946</link>
		<dc:creator>dance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 15:28:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=8649#comment-167946</guid>
		<description>alkali@88:
&lt;i&gt;I can also readily imagine that if were the target of a nasty comment, I’d prefer to have it removed entirely, at least in some cases.&lt;/i&gt;

Yes, sort of.... I still think the better response in such exceptional situations (which override general principles) would not be to delete the comment entirely but to edit/overwrite the text somesuch:

[something entirely nasty and defamatory was posted here, @78. [Author&#039;sName] has since admitted no grounds and sincerely apologized, @113.]

That also attacks the issue of propagation---rather than disappearing the comment and thus making it live on in rumor, any link or reference to it becomes attached to the retraction.

Incidentally, in this post Scalzi doesn&#039;t address this issue at all, I don&#039;t think, but I just checked the comment policy linked, and he says he will edit personal attacks, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>alkali@88:<br />
<i>I can also readily imagine that if were the target of a nasty comment, I’d prefer to have it removed entirely, at least in some cases.</i></p>
<p>Yes, sort of&#8230;. I still think the better response in such exceptional situations (which override general principles) would not be to delete the comment entirely but to edit/overwrite the text somesuch:</p>
<p>[something entirely nasty and defamatory was posted here, @78. [Author'sName] has since admitted no grounds and sincerely apologized, @113.]</p>
<p>That also attacks the issue of propagation&#8212;rather than disappearing the comment and thus making it live on in rumor, any link or reference to it becomes attached to the retraction.</p>
<p>Incidentally, in this post Scalzi doesn&#8217;t address this issue at all, I don&#8217;t think, but I just checked the comment policy linked, and he says he will edit personal attacks, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Jules Jones</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/09/30/my-comment-deletions-policy/#comment-167931</link>
		<dc:creator>Jules Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 14:13:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=8649#comment-167931</guid>
		<description>Andrew @98: A lot of the Yahoogroups I&#039;ve seen have some fairly heavy moderation, which includes going back and retro-moderating comments for various reasons (frequently including the attempt to pretend something embarrassing was never said). It&#039;s not a trivial task if you&#039;re the mod in question, as you&#039;ve pointed out, but it does seem to have given a fair number of people the idea that a) it&#039;s easy to do, b) if the comment is deleted, it was never posted. If it&#039;s not on the yahoogroups archive, it&#039;s gone, in their minds. The existence  of archive.org, google cache, and people who read email offline from their personal mailspool doesn&#039;t seem to register.

I saw enough of this to do with spats in online romance fandom that I ended up writing a &quot;Welcome to the Panopticon&quot; rant after one particularly awe-inspiring outbreak of morning-after-the-night-before attempted censorship. Personally, I think there are legitimate reasons to ask for comments to be deleted or modified. But as so many people in this comment thread have already said, it&#039;s usually not physically possible to remove the evidence, simply because there are so many caching services outside the control of the site where the comments were originally posted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew @98: A lot of the Yahoogroups I&#8217;ve seen have some fairly heavy moderation, which includes going back and retro-moderating comments for various reasons (frequently including the attempt to pretend something embarrassing was never said). It&#8217;s not a trivial task if you&#8217;re the mod in question, as you&#8217;ve pointed out, but it does seem to have given a fair number of people the idea that a) it&#8217;s easy to do, b) if the comment is deleted, it was never posted. If it&#8217;s not on the yahoogroups archive, it&#8217;s gone, in their minds. The existence  of archive.org, google cache, and people who read email offline from their personal mailspool doesn&#8217;t seem to register.</p>
<p>I saw enough of this to do with spats in online romance fandom that I ended up writing a &#8220;Welcome to the Panopticon&#8221; rant after one particularly awe-inspiring outbreak of morning-after-the-night-before attempted censorship. Personally, I think there are legitimate reasons to ask for comments to be deleted or modified. But as so many people in this comment thread have already said, it&#8217;s usually not physically possible to remove the evidence, simply because there are so many caching services outside the control of the site where the comments were originally posted.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/09/30/my-comment-deletions-policy/#comment-167529</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 00:57:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=8649#comment-167529</guid>
		<description>Jules Jones @50: I had a request from a long-time user on a Yahoogroups list I moderate to delete his old posts.  It was hardly more practical to do there than on any other kind of list: with some work I might have been able to delete his posts but I couldn&#039;t do anything about posts by others that quoted or referred to them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jules Jones @50: I had a request from a long-time user on a Yahoogroups list I moderate to delete his old posts.  It was hardly more practical to do there than on any other kind of list: with some work I might have been able to delete his posts but I couldn&#8217;t do anything about posts by others that quoted or referred to them.</p>
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		<title>By: pnkrokhockeymom</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/09/30/my-comment-deletions-policy/#comment-167485</link>
		<dc:creator>pnkrokhockeymom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 20:52:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=8649#comment-167485</guid>
		<description>Cool story:

I use this pseud not, as I suspect several people that hang here already know, because I&#039;m so afraid of being outed or because I&#039;m afraid to own my words, but because I like to keep my professional me and my personal me google-separate.  By and large it works, and it&#039;s pretty important.  If folks really want to find me, I&#039;m under no delusions that they could do so, and fairly easily.  But I like most of my google hits to bring up my professional persona, so that clients, potential clients, curious opposing counsel, etc., can find me easily and don&#039;t have to wade through a bunch of irrelevant stuff to get to what they need to know.

ANYWAY, reading this just now prompted me to one of my semi-frequent &quot;google checks&quot; to see how much of me is overlapping.  I didn&#039;t find much overlap.  What I did find, however, is that my name comes up in my state&#039;s &quot;unclaimed property&quot; database.  TWICE.  

Woo!  Thanks, John.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cool story:</p>
<p>I use this pseud not, as I suspect several people that hang here already know, because I&#8217;m so afraid of being outed or because I&#8217;m afraid to own my words, but because I like to keep my professional me and my personal me google-separate.  By and large it works, and it&#8217;s pretty important.  If folks really want to find me, I&#8217;m under no delusions that they could do so, and fairly easily.  But I like most of my google hits to bring up my professional persona, so that clients, potential clients, curious opposing counsel, etc., can find me easily and don&#8217;t have to wade through a bunch of irrelevant stuff to get to what they need to know.</p>
<p>ANYWAY, reading this just now prompted me to one of my semi-frequent &#8220;google checks&#8221; to see how much of me is overlapping.  I didn&#8217;t find much overlap.  What I did find, however, is that my name comes up in my state&#8217;s &#8220;unclaimed property&#8221; database.  TWICE.  </p>
<p>Woo!  Thanks, John.</p>
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		<title>By: Xopher</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/09/30/my-comment-deletions-policy/#comment-167482</link>
		<dc:creator>Xopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 20:36:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=8649#comment-167482</guid>
		<description>DO did take it up on ML.  Here&#039;s her &lt;a href=&quot;http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/011691.html#372734&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;bozo copyright troll comment&lt;/a&gt;.

And D&#039;offended, don&#039;t sell yourself short.  You can certainly aspire to one &quot;epithet&quot; John used, that being &#039;mad craziness&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DO did take it up on ML.  Here&#8217;s her <a href="http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/011691.html#372734" rel="nofollow">bozo copyright troll comment</a>.</p>
<p>And D&#8217;offended, don&#8217;t sell yourself short.  You can certainly aspire to one &#8220;epithet&#8221; John used, that being &#8216;mad craziness&#8217;.</p>
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