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	<title>Comments on: A Quick Note On eBook Pricing and Amazon Hijinx</title>
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	<description>I FORGET WHAT EIGHT WAS FOR</description>
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		<title>By: Rogelio Hutley</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2010/01/30/a-quick-note-on-ebook-pricing/#comment-223373</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rogelio Hutley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Nov 2010 06:10:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=9862#comment-223373</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A neighbour of mine asked me to check out your page four weeks ago, since us two enjoy the same stuff (yeah we&#039;re close friends, similar heads, been 32 years) and I actually got to say that im majorly impressed. We both were considering to launch an identical website just like yours, however, we have had some problems. First, neither of us is a technology savvy individual, secondly, we don&#039;t actually know where to start from... i know alot of people managed to get their dot coms on the internet just recently (due to low prices, etc.) but we are still having struggles. I would greatly appreciate it if you recommend to us a place to begin from, because we don&#039;t have a hint LOL. Indeed it sucks being 50 years old internet-literates... or should I say dot com literates?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A neighbour of mine asked me to check out your page four weeks ago, since us two enjoy the same stuff (yeah we&#8217;re close friends, similar heads, been 32 years) and I actually got to say that im majorly impressed. We both were considering to launch an identical website just like yours, however, we have had some problems. First, neither of us is a technology savvy individual, secondly, we don&#8217;t actually know where to start from&#8230; i know alot of people managed to get their dot coms on the internet just recently (due to low prices, etc.) but we are still having struggles. I would greatly appreciate it if you recommend to us a place to begin from, because we don&#8217;t have a hint LOL. Indeed it sucks being 50 years old internet-literates&#8230; or should I say dot com literates?</p>
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		<title>By: Karin Kallmaker</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2010/01/30/a-quick-note-on-ebook-pricing/#comment-213077</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Karin Kallmaker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 06:01:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=9862#comment-213077</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The price of ebooks won&#039;t matter much if pirates continue to decimate the niche and small press writers&#039; earnings. http://bit.ly/FanstotheRescue]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The price of ebooks won&#8217;t matter much if pirates continue to decimate the niche and small press writers&#8217; earnings. <a href="http://bit.ly/FanstotheRescue" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/FanstotheRescue</a></p>
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		<title>By: james Smith</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2010/01/30/a-quick-note-on-ebook-pricing/#comment-213067</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[james Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 03:30:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=9862#comment-213067</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am an avid kindle user.I use my kindle not only for e-book reading but also for Wikipedia searches driving directions maps recipes ect.Many of the books I read are public domain from project Gutenberg or other sources.That being said I actually spend more buying books on my kindle than I ever spent on either hardbound or paperback books.With the price of kindles coming down you will soon be able to lend a friend a kindle book by owning a second kindle and handing it to them.They are down to $109 for a refurbished kindle 2. Eventually I see most authors and editors doing direct publishing with little promotion or distribution cost.The public at large will do most of the sorting and winnowing for quality with the best authors being able to get a better price for their work.As more and more publishing goes to e book formats there will be little need for the printing warehousing and indeed the bookstores themselves.There won&#039;t be publishing executives telling me what will be available and what I should like.Lightning speed word of mouth via e-mail face book and twitter will substitute for multimedia book marketing and advertising.We will miss hanging out at the bookstore just as we miss hanging around the livery stable but humans will find other places to get together.The sales model will be more like e-bay where anyone can sell and anyone can buy with a relatively low overhead.Payment will be by pay-pal or similar entity.I&#039;m not sure having some higher priced popular books available only on the nook or the Sony reader will hurt amazon as it will give people the idea that  the nook or the Sony reader has higher priced books in general ,decreasing their sales and increasing the kindles until they are the only game in town.Will authors and publishers be willing to hold out against amazon when they know their income will be greater with greater book sales at lower margins? Sadly ,for the authors ,I suspect writing is like making music many would do it even if it meant paying for the privilege. This will tend to keep prices lower.
     Technical books and textbooks will be another story entirely.They will always have a very limited market and therefore much higher prices.There will also always need to be much higher level of oversight and quality control.People and institutions will be unwilling to spend large amounts of money on a book that no one but the author has reviewed and no one but the author has a reputation  on the line. The format may become electronic but nothing else much will change.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am an avid kindle user.I use my kindle not only for e-book reading but also for Wikipedia searches driving directions maps recipes ect.Many of the books I read are public domain from project Gutenberg or other sources.That being said I actually spend more buying books on my kindle than I ever spent on either hardbound or paperback books.With the price of kindles coming down you will soon be able to lend a friend a kindle book by owning a second kindle and handing it to them.They are down to $109 for a refurbished kindle 2. Eventually I see most authors and editors doing direct publishing with little promotion or distribution cost.The public at large will do most of the sorting and winnowing for quality with the best authors being able to get a better price for their work.As more and more publishing goes to e book formats there will be little need for the printing warehousing and indeed the bookstores themselves.There won&#8217;t be publishing executives telling me what will be available and what I should like.Lightning speed word of mouth via e-mail face book and twitter will substitute for multimedia book marketing and advertising.We will miss hanging out at the bookstore just as we miss hanging around the livery stable but humans will find other places to get together.The sales model will be more like e-bay where anyone can sell and anyone can buy with a relatively low overhead.Payment will be by pay-pal or similar entity.I&#8217;m not sure having some higher priced popular books available only on the nook or the Sony reader will hurt amazon as it will give people the idea that  the nook or the Sony reader has higher priced books in general ,decreasing their sales and increasing the kindles until they are the only game in town.Will authors and publishers be willing to hold out against amazon when they know their income will be greater with greater book sales at lower margins? Sadly ,for the authors ,I suspect writing is like making music many would do it even if it meant paying for the privilege. This will tend to keep prices lower.<br />
     Technical books and textbooks will be another story entirely.They will always have a very limited market and therefore much higher prices.There will also always need to be much higher level of oversight and quality control.People and institutions will be unwilling to spend large amounts of money on a book that no one but the author has reviewed and no one but the author has a reputation  on the line. The format may become electronic but nothing else much will change.</p>
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		<title>By: leah</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2010/01/30/a-quick-note-on-ebook-pricing/#comment-205202</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[leah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 May 2010 10:21:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=9862#comment-205202</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Keep in mind that the selling of ebooks will lead to higher earnings for the author and publisher. Since I can&#039;t sell the ebook to a used bookstore--- the secondary market (where you don&#039;t profit)--- your odds of a person investing in a new copy of your book go up! And if they purchase an ebook........]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keep in mind that the selling of ebooks will lead to higher earnings for the author and publisher. Since I can&#8217;t sell the ebook to a used bookstore&#8212; the secondary market (where you don&#8217;t profit)&#8212; your odds of a person investing in a new copy of your book go up! And if they purchase an ebook&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Brenna Lyons</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2010/01/30/a-quick-note-on-ebook-pricing/#comment-193333</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brenna Lyons]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:52:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=9862#comment-193333</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Since we were discussing legal e-book libraries... Here is a story about one with the tech I was talking about.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/surrey/8516122.stm

Brenna]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since we were discussing legal e-book libraries&#8230; Here is a story about one with the tech I was talking about.</p>
<p><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/surrey/8516122.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/surrey/8516122.stm</a></p>
<p>Brenna</p>
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		<title>By: Brenna Lyons</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2010/01/30/a-quick-note-on-ebook-pricing/#comment-192619</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brenna Lyons]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:55:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=9862#comment-192619</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Edward,

I understand your concern, and thanks for answering the polling. 

I tend to purchase unsecured formats to make sure I can read it on whatever device of my own I wish. I know some devices (like Nook and Kindle) have sharing built in to the device, and there are lending libraries of e-books. I think we&#039;re moving toward what you would like...slowly. It always seems to go slower than we&#039;d like, it seems.

The common thread is that we need a universal format that everything can read and a universal reader that can read every format. Once we have both...at a decent price, we&#039;ll be golden. Believe me, I get it! Grinning...

Brenna]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Edward,</p>
<p>I understand your concern, and thanks for answering the polling. </p>
<p>I tend to purchase unsecured formats to make sure I can read it on whatever device of my own I wish. I know some devices (like Nook and Kindle) have sharing built in to the device, and there are lending libraries of e-books. I think we&#8217;re moving toward what you would like&#8230;slowly. It always seems to go slower than we&#8217;d like, it seems.</p>
<p>The common thread is that we need a universal format that everything can read and a universal reader that can read every format. Once we have both&#8230;at a decent price, we&#8217;ll be golden. Believe me, I get it! Grinning&#8230;</p>
<p>Brenna</p>
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		<title>By: Edward G. Talbot</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2010/01/30/a-quick-note-on-ebook-pricing/#comment-192618</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Edward G. Talbot]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:45:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=9862#comment-192618</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Brenna  I answered your poll with the best answer I could, but I answered it in the context of the current ebook market.  As long as I cannot lend an ebook or I need to have multiple devices/software to read books from different retailers, my answer is far different than it would be otherwise.  I would actually pay the same amount for an ebook that I would for a paper book if those two issues get addressed - what that means is half a dozen hardcovers a year but quite a few paperbacks and trade paperbacks in the $7-$12 range.

I&#039;m not suggesting that publishers *need* to address my concerns - I recognize that I am probably in a minority of eventual ebook readers, even if many of the current small universe of ebook readers might agree with me.  But I also think that no one will really have any idea what the larger book-reading audience will pay for ebooks until something really standard and universal emerges.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Brenna  I answered your poll with the best answer I could, but I answered it in the context of the current ebook market.  As long as I cannot lend an ebook or I need to have multiple devices/software to read books from different retailers, my answer is far different than it would be otherwise.  I would actually pay the same amount for an ebook that I would for a paper book if those two issues get addressed &#8211; what that means is half a dozen hardcovers a year but quite a few paperbacks and trade paperbacks in the $7-$12 range.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not suggesting that publishers *need* to address my concerns &#8211; I recognize that I am probably in a minority of eventual ebook readers, even if many of the current small universe of ebook readers might agree with me.  But I also think that no one will really have any idea what the larger book-reading audience will pay for ebooks until something really standard and universal emerges.</p>
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		<title>By: Brenna Lyons</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2010/01/30/a-quick-note-on-ebook-pricing/#comment-192614</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brenna Lyons]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:20:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=9862#comment-192614</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Okay…you folks want proactive. I will gladly provide proactive, if I can. I’ll provide numbers…not just that the indies have already done their testing and come up with their stable base but rather asking you…the readers.

brennalyonsden.blogspot.com/

You will find a polling to the left side top of the blog. Vote in it, and give me feedback. It’s one simple question…how much are you willing to pay for a novel-length (NOT category length…something 300 mass market pages long or so and selling for $6 or more in mass market on Amazon and with a mass market list price of $8 or so…specific enough detailing on what the comparison will be?) fiction e-book. I have it set to run for more than a month, and the results will be reported in a post from EPIC. I believe I know what avid e-book readers will say, but let’s see if I’m right.

At the very least, this will be an interesting experiment.

Brenna]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay…you folks want proactive. I will gladly provide proactive, if I can. I’ll provide numbers…not just that the indies have already done their testing and come up with their stable base but rather asking you…the readers.</p>
<p>brennalyonsden.blogspot.com/</p>
<p>You will find a polling to the left side top of the blog. Vote in it, and give me feedback. It’s one simple question…how much are you willing to pay for a novel-length (NOT category length…something 300 mass market pages long or so and selling for $6 or more in mass market on Amazon and with a mass market list price of $8 or so…specific enough detailing on what the comparison will be?) fiction e-book. I have it set to run for more than a month, and the results will be reported in a post from EPIC. I believe I know what avid e-book readers will say, but let’s see if I’m right.</p>
<p>At the very least, this will be an interesting experiment.</p>
<p>Brenna</p>
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		<title>By: stevie</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2010/01/30/a-quick-note-on-ebook-pricing/#comment-192013</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[stevie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 19:43:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=9862#comment-192013</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oscar @ 426

&#039;The lower barrier for financial success in a novel decreases the cost per finding a successful novel as well, in that the publisher’s manuscript readers will spend more time approving books.&#039;

I think you should run this one by the people over at Making Light; it will give them a laugh, sorry, cheer them up...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oscar @ 426</p>
<p>&#8216;The lower barrier for financial success in a novel decreases the cost per finding a successful novel as well, in that the publisher’s manuscript readers will spend more time approving books.&#8217;</p>
<p>I think you should run this one by the people over at Making Light; it will give them a laugh, sorry, cheer them up&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Oscar</title>
		<link>http://whatever.scalzi.com/2010/01/30/a-quick-note-on-ebook-pricing/#comment-192003</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Oscar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 19:16:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatever.scalzi.com/?p=9862#comment-192003</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think that this whole mess is really a mistake on everyone&#039;s part, and have a few comments about it.

1.  Publishers need to realize that the ebook is a real game changer for what gets published and how much it costs.  With ebooks, there are no physical costs involved, ie no need to print physical copies of the book.  Since physical printing is expensive to set up and run, this means that the &quot;probability of sufficient success&quot; for an author&#039;s novel doesn&#039;t need to be as high to merit publishing, and risk of monetary loss decreases.  Furthermore, there are no &quot;second hand&quot; ebooks, which further increases sales.  The lower barrier for financial success in a novel decreases the cost per finding a successful novel as well, in that the publisher&#039;s manuscript readers will spend more time approving books.  In a situation where the cost of the book is calculated to make a &quot;fair&quot; profit, these factors would mean that the cost of ebooks would decrease.  Even in a situation where the cost of the work is based on making as much profit as reasonable, which is a more realistic example, it would be expected by the consumer the the price of an ebook would be less than that of the physical copy at an equivalent time.

2.  With digital media, the moral judgement of the consumer is key.  As the music and film industries have discovered, DRM doesn&#039;t work- it might stop the everyday user from disseminating, but is no real barrier for the even partially tech-savy.  If ebook readers feel like they are getting the shaft, they are liable to torrent or otherwise freely and illegally obtain the novel/film/music in question.  I&#039;m not going to discuss the morality of this- its a simple, empirical fact.  So is the concept that once someone&#039;s downloaded one book, they are more likely to download more.  Readers want to read these books still, but- notice many of the above comments- they become unwilling to pay.  Authors and publishers should consider the long term impact of what is effectively short term price-gouging.  As a side note, also consider offering free ebook access if you buy the physical book- its kinda nice to be able to use either a computer or the novel.

3.  On the reverse, treating the consumer well results in consumer loyalty.  Anecdotally, I&#039;m a member of several online forums, some about books, others about computer programming, etc, and I remember a while back that someone asked if anyone had an upload for a John Ringo novel.  Now, with some authors, this would probably have been followed with a post including a link to some semi-dodgy site; in this case, the poster was informed that all of Ringo&#039;s novels were available at webscriptions.net for a reasonable price ($5, in this case).  The original poster thanked the person who wrote the reply, saying they hadn&#039;t known.  

4.  The publishing industry is afraid of creating a &quot;walmart&quot; situation, where Amazon, as the seller, controls the market and thus the price.  Because of this, MacMillan argued that Amazon shouldn&#039;t take a hit on books to offer them at a lower price, an argument that resulted in MacMillan books being pulled.  Amazon mismanaged PR on this occasion, but there is no such guarantee for the future.  What MacMillan, and the authors that can influence it need to understand is that there is no faster way for Amazon to gain control than for it to be the effective champion of the consumer.

Overall, MacMillan in particular and the publishing world in general is showing a sense of greed and lack of understanding and forethought that is truly astonishing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that this whole mess is really a mistake on everyone&#8217;s part, and have a few comments about it.</p>
<p>1.  Publishers need to realize that the ebook is a real game changer for what gets published and how much it costs.  With ebooks, there are no physical costs involved, ie no need to print physical copies of the book.  Since physical printing is expensive to set up and run, this means that the &#8220;probability of sufficient success&#8221; for an author&#8217;s novel doesn&#8217;t need to be as high to merit publishing, and risk of monetary loss decreases.  Furthermore, there are no &#8220;second hand&#8221; ebooks, which further increases sales.  The lower barrier for financial success in a novel decreases the cost per finding a successful novel as well, in that the publisher&#8217;s manuscript readers will spend more time approving books.  In a situation where the cost of the book is calculated to make a &#8220;fair&#8221; profit, these factors would mean that the cost of ebooks would decrease.  Even in a situation where the cost of the work is based on making as much profit as reasonable, which is a more realistic example, it would be expected by the consumer the the price of an ebook would be less than that of the physical copy at an equivalent time.</p>
<p>2.  With digital media, the moral judgement of the consumer is key.  As the music and film industries have discovered, DRM doesn&#8217;t work- it might stop the everyday user from disseminating, but is no real barrier for the even partially tech-savy.  If ebook readers feel like they are getting the shaft, they are liable to torrent or otherwise freely and illegally obtain the novel/film/music in question.  I&#8217;m not going to discuss the morality of this- its a simple, empirical fact.  So is the concept that once someone&#8217;s downloaded one book, they are more likely to download more.  Readers want to read these books still, but- notice many of the above comments- they become unwilling to pay.  Authors and publishers should consider the long term impact of what is effectively short term price-gouging.  As a side note, also consider offering free ebook access if you buy the physical book- its kinda nice to be able to use either a computer or the novel.</p>
<p>3.  On the reverse, treating the consumer well results in consumer loyalty.  Anecdotally, I&#8217;m a member of several online forums, some about books, others about computer programming, etc, and I remember a while back that someone asked if anyone had an upload for a John Ringo novel.  Now, with some authors, this would probably have been followed with a post including a link to some semi-dodgy site; in this case, the poster was informed that all of Ringo&#8217;s novels were available at webscriptions.net for a reasonable price ($5, in this case).  The original poster thanked the person who wrote the reply, saying they hadn&#8217;t known.  </p>
<p>4.  The publishing industry is afraid of creating a &#8220;walmart&#8221; situation, where Amazon, as the seller, controls the market and thus the price.  Because of this, MacMillan argued that Amazon shouldn&#8217;t take a hit on books to offer them at a lower price, an argument that resulted in MacMillan books being pulled.  Amazon mismanaged PR on this occasion, but there is no such guarantee for the future.  What MacMillan, and the authors that can influence it need to understand is that there is no faster way for Amazon to gain control than for it to be the effective champion of the consumer.</p>
<p>Overall, MacMillan in particular and the publishing world in general is showing a sense of greed and lack of understanding and forethought that is truly astonishing.</p>
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