Flags and the Confederacy (Again)
Posted on November 25, 2002 Posted by John Scalzi 15 Comments
I’m still getting a lot of mail from Confederate partisans over my recent posts on how the Confederacy was evil, and so are its flags. Most of these apologists are spieling out lines suggesting that, yes, yes, fine, the Confederacy did institutionalize slavery. But today its flags mean entirely different things, like pride and heritage and (inevitably) states rights over federal rights. Why can’t we (meaning, presumably, the folk not in the states of the former Confederacy and the descendants of the people the Confederacy explicitly enslaved) just get over it? My God, haven’t the decent white folk of the South suffered enough? They lost their country, after all.
Well, let me make a counter-suggestion, which is that I’ll start trying to forget that the Confederate flag is fundamentally evil, if the Confederacy-pushers will acknowledge that the Confederacy was in fact, a big fat loser, and therefore any of its symbols are less than fertile ground for positive associations.
Loooooooooooser. And it isn’t just a loser in war. Although it is that, let’s not forget — and it lost that war big. Sure, they kept it close in the first half, but after that it was a blowout. The North had a deeper bench. Even a post-game late hit on the North’s general manager (while he was in his luxury suite, for God’s sake!) couldn’t change that fact. But even tossing aside the war, the Confederacy is a loser in so many other ways it’s hard to know where to begin. But let’s begin anyway, shall we?
States’ rights: Loser. The Confederacy so bungled the states’ rights issue that it ended up establishing the primacy of the federal government over states, and additionally ensured that no other state could ever secede from the Union again. Oh, and then the former Confederate states were subjected to a rather unfortunate period of time (it’s called the Reconstruction) where they had about as many state’s rights as the District of Columbia. So, in all, not a particularly shining example for states’ rights.
This where Confederate partisans grumble that yeah, but technically the Confederacy was right on the constitutionality of secession. Well, kids, two things: One, nuh uh. Clearly that was a matter open to interpretation, which is why you had to fight a war about it (which — did I mention? — you lost). Two, even if the Confederacy were technically right on secession, this is a really stupid argument anyway. What, like the United States is just going to go, “Gee, okay, what we’d really like is to have a hostile neighbor to the south of us, competing with us for land on this here North American continent?” I mean, Christ, people. Get a grip.
Clearly we think the Colonists were in the right when they drafted up the Declaration of Independence and suggested that we and Britain had to go our own ways. But they still had to fight a war regarding the matter — and win it. I don’t recall the Colonists being shocked, shocked when Britain didn’t exactly roll over and cheerfully lose a few thousand miles of North American coastline. They knew what they were getting into. So it’s a little silly to suggest that the Confederates, either then or now, should feel otherwise. It’s just whining.
When it comes to things like land and constitutions, being right is half the battle; the other half of the battle is the actual battle you have to fight to enforce your claim. The Confederacy lost that part, which is just as well, because they were way off base with that whole secession thing to begin with. Bad premises, bad results.
Heritage: Loser. Let’s be honest here. There is almost no truly Confederate heritage, if only because the Confederacy in itself didn’t last long enough to generate any while it was an ongoing concern, and while it was around, it was too busy trying to survive to do much of anything else. There is of course a rich heritage of Confederania now, but it exists entirely as the fly-blown leavings from the Confederate corpse, rather than the fruits of a living tree, and that’s not entirely the same thing.
Confederate partisans try to backdate Confederate heritage to before the Confederate era, but I don’t think that is something we should cede to them. There is indeed an antebellum Southern culture, but the participants of that culture did not equate their culture with the political entity known as the Confederacy, since that entity didn’t exist. If they didn’t I don’t see why the rest of us should make that equation, either.
Part of the whitewash campaign of the Confederate partisans is to try to sell the idea that Confederate symbols somehow encompass the entire history of the South, and they don’t, neither prior to the Confederacy nor after. Let’s remember that Confederate and Southern are not synonyms. Southern heritage is a fine thing; Confederate heritage is not. Using the symbols of the latter to represent the former is presumptuous.
Pride: Loser. Proud of what? Of the fact the Confederacy precipitated a civil war that killed hundreds of thousands of men on both sides of the battle? Which — let’s never forget — it lost? Of constitutionally enslaving black people? Of being the cause of the devastation and occupation of the Southern states by Union troops and carpetbaggers?
Oh, yes, Confederate friends, that last one was your fault. We know all about that whole “War of Northern Aggression” line you’ve got going down there, as if you were just sitting there minding your own business when all of a sudden Sherman popped up and started, like, burning things. However, allow me to suggest that from the point of view of the United States, trying to make off with half the country, as you did, seemed like a fairly aggressive maneuver at the time. I’ll be happy to know if you disagree, since then you won’t mind if I come over and take over half of your house, preferably the half with the hot tub.
Individual Southerners feel pride in ancestors who went out and fought (and sometimes died) for the Confederate side of the war, which as I’ve mentioned before is just fine. But I don’t see how one can ignore the fact that all those Johnny Rebs would have been safe as houses had the Confederacy never existed. Prior to December of 1860, it’s not as if the armies of the north were perennially massed at the Mason-Dixon line, champing at the bit to torch the south, and the poor southerners had no choice but to hoist grandpappy’s musket and slug it out at Antietam.
Many of the Confederate apologists with whom I’ve corresponded maintain that their ancestors fought and died to protect their homes, not for the ideals of the Confederacy, and I suspect that in many cases that’s probably true. It still stands whatever their personal reasons for fighting, they fought because of the fact of the Confederacy, which was an evil institution, for reasons I’ve outlined before. Essentially, these people fought and died because an unnecessary and wholly evil entity invited trouble to their doorstep. Someone needs to explain to me why one should feel pride in that.
(Anyway, I do think there needs to be a line drawn in terms of responsibility. Not every Confederate soldier was fighting simply to protect the homestead; at least a few here and there had to believe in the principles of the Confederacy or at the very least the right of the Confederate states to go their own way. These people were wrong, however bravely they may have fought. It’s well and good that they were defeated, since the “independence” they would have bought was rotten to begin with.)
The only real pride one should have as a Confederate partisan is Loser Pride, in which one invests one’s energy in a perennially losing entity primarily as an exercise in existential humility; i.e., Cubs fans. But even Cubs fans have the possibility for glory in that the Cubs are an ongoing concern. The Confederacy, on the other hand, is deader than a gay bar in Branson and will stay that way. It will never be anything but a loser.
Useful Flags: Loser! Look, the Confederacy was so screwed up that it couldn’t even get its flags right. The first official Confederate flag was the Stars and Bars, which was rather too similar to the flag of the United States; it made things even more confusing on the battlefield than they already were. So, the Confederacy decided on another flag, which was largely white. The problem with this flag was that it pretty much looked like a flag of surrender — it was that whole “field of white” thing it had going. Obviously this was problematic if in fact you weren’t trying to surrender, or alternately, if you were, since the Union folks wouldn’t be able to tell right off whether you were giving up or fixin’ to stab them with your bayonets, so they’d be better off shooting you just to be sure.
So out comes a third flag, which, unfortunately for the Confederacy, came out just about the time the Confederacy was imploding from total loserness and teetering on the cusp of non-existence. Shortly thereafter, another flag flew at the Confederate capital, Richmond, and other points south: The flag of the United States of America. And personally I’m hard-pressed not to see that as a vast improvement.
Given the voluminous evidence of the total loser-osity of the Confederacy, you’ll understand why every time I get a letter from someone proclaiming the Confederate flags to be a positive symbol, I just get flummoxed. Frankly, it’s difficult to think of any flags anywhere at any point in time that are as steeped in complete failure on as many social, cultural and political levels as these are. It’s just so damn sad that people are still out there trying to delude themselves otherwise.
The only explanation I can come up with that makes any sense is that certain people from the south simply cannot think rationally about the Confederate flags, much in the same way that certain otherwise totally rational Christians freak out about the fact they’re descended from stooped, hooting proto-primates just like the rest of us. It’s a blank spot in their brain in which they choose not to allow thought of any sort.
Fine. As I’ve said before, if you want to believe that the Confederate flags represent anything but an evil and ultimately pathetically inept institution, and all the consequent stupidity that followed through its use by segregationists, morons and demagogic flag wavers who’d rather rile up the easily excitable than actually make the South a better place for all its citizens, then by all means go right ahead. We’ll agree to disagree.
But please don’t write to me saying that the meaning of the Confederate flag has changed or should change. Short of wiping out the history of the Confederacy itself and pretending it never existed, this isn’t going to happen. The Confederate flag a symbol of evil, and like most symbols of evil it’s much better used as a reminder of the damage evil can do, than it is as a misplaced symbol of pride.
The Confederate flags are the symbols of losers, and those who glorify losers. I really wouldn’t have it any other way.
Very interesting opinions you have. No offense, but you sound like a loser yourself, no matter what your heritage is. Tell me, when the confederacy came close to beating the yanks in particular battles, what did the yanks do? They ran back to there little houses and estates, got more men, and came back to battle again. When the yanks beat the confederates in certain battles, what did the confederates do? They kept fighting. Why? Because we do not give up, we are not losers, and we never surrendered. I don’t know what you would call that, but I would call it courage, and pride. Not pride in losing a war, hell no, pride in fighting for what you believe in. And we were not fighting for only the slavery of blacks, we knew what would happen if someone didn’t speak up about the federacy taking power, the government rule all, forget constitution. If it weren’t for many brave generals, the US would most likely be a communist nation! The black issue- tell me, did confederates know any better? Tell me my friend, what would a weak son of a bitch like you do if you had to work all day in the hot sun for nothing? The slaves were given a respectable home for the most part, they had food and water, I’m sure they did far enough illegal work to ensure their survival. I’m not encouraging slavery, it was wrong, yes, but if they wanted to be free sooooo badly, why didn’t they simply GO? God would lead them. God isn’t stereotype like you, and he certainly isn’t racist. He would lead them safely if it was His will. But they were COWARDS and didn’t run. They stayed put in their little shit-holes and simply obeyed like the dogs they were thought to be. What is the point of life in that? There is no pride for them, and the only pride for the yanks is the fact they won the war. May I stress the point also that they won the war because of more men, and advanced artilery?
Enevitably, you are right on many issues. The flags were incredibly screwed, but you named the reasons why and should acknowledge the fact that it wasn’t as if the south had much of a choice. That I do not understand, I mean seriously, stick with your flag, till the end. But the war again, it killed many men on both sides. If the yanks would have simply fought for only business and the freedom of slaves, the war would have been decided with intellengence, and also not much bloodshed. But emotions came into the role of the north, they had started the war and decided to end it. Confederates had emotions as well, but one main ruled for both sides: aggression. That is a main reason for the drawn out display of terror and gore. You agree with that I know, at least half-heartedly. You have let emotions play a part in this presentation you have too, so I salute you. You would have made a great confederate.
You describe the war of the States as if it were a movie or horrid book. Tell me now, when was the last time you were criticized for your heritage? When did you fight in the war? When have you had family members die in front of you because of some damn fight? Aren’t yankees just as bad? They could have let the south be the south, but they did not. I salute them for it too, without them Yanks then blacks wouldn’t be free today, but without the yanks we would also be an extremely less-divieded nation. I have made friends with many people, and more than one friendship went awry because of this shit. Same old story, but it is of the past. The south was wrong then, but now look at our dilemna. The Present and the Future is what we should worry about, not a controversy from the past. The North has many laws that are completely insane, like gay marriges, that is NOT right at all. IT IS A SIN. I believe an intellegent (but highly stereotyped) person as yourself could realize that.
The south never gave up, they never surrendered or believed in government control. The north wanted government control, they thought it “wise”. Well my friend, what is America to you? A racist nation of winners and losers? Well all in all it is a unity of many diverse people who have all had their issues, we are all winners and losers, and we all are Evil in some way. No one side is perfect, and no one side is purely evil. I would enjoy a response to this, perhaps we could chat about it later. Your views need an opposer, and I’d like a little challenge.
The South’s gonna do it again.
Sarah Vaughn said:
“Because we do not give up, we are not losers, and we never surrendered.”
Well, except for that one time on April 9, 1865.
John,
You are the reason that I’m not proud of my heritage and culture today. You are the most ignorant person in the world for bringing God into slavery. That may have been the most racist thing I’ve ever heard somebody say much less write on paper. I’m writing a paper on the confederate flag and that is how I found this site. Thank you for further helping me realize that people are just as racist today as they were 100 years ago; idiot!!!
I’m not quite sure I’m following your line of thinking, there, Mark.
However, before you accuse *me* of bringing God into slavery, please do be aware that slave owners quoted scripture all the time to justify owning another human being, and there are some whacked-out brands of Christian (to be clear, very, very, VERY fringe) who would be happy to institute it again even now (see: http://www.religioustolerance.org/reconstr.htm). So, you know, don’t blame *me* for that.
Should God exist (about which I am ambivalent) and should he concern himself with what we humans do (which I would doubt), I would find it unlikely he’d be pleased to find anyone justifying slavery by invoking his name.
The south lost, and the rednecks need to get over it. They’re cought up in a war that took place in the 1800s when we as a country have a war against true evil going on right now. If they don’t want to be a part of our great nation then I will be the first to offer them a one way ticket to France!
The south lost, and the rednecks need to get over it.
the entire problem with the way some people see the confederate flag is stereotyping…chris, its comments like that from people like you, people i might add that need to brush up on their history lessons, that cause such controvery about the confederate flag…you think of the south and a confederate flag and you automatically say redneck…why is that?..true some people use it as a sign of hate…but thats not what it was intended for…it was never flown during the war as a sign of hate…it was a battle flag and that only…its a part of our southern history and a part of american history like it or not…call me a redneck call me a looser, like i give a damn…i could care less what anothers opinion of me is…i know the way i was raised, the history i was tought in school, the things i was taught to believe in…i was raised with a strong sense of southern pride, but i was also raised to treat everyone as equals, to not look down or treat anyone differently due to their race, social standing or any other factors…i am proud of where i come from and i am proud of what my ancestors fought for, indepence from what would have turned into a communist country…the war was fought because the southern states feared a big government who would control every aspect of their lives…a government who was against free trade, and wanted to tax the working man to death, so that the politicians could keep on enjoying their “fat” pockets and wealthy lives…seems like its pretty much the same thing today now doesnt it?? name one poor politician??…
here’s a few quotes for you all:
MYTH – The War of 1861 – 1865 was fought over slavery.
FACT – Terribly untrue. The North fought the war over money. Plain and simple. When the South started Secession, Lincoln was asked, “Why not let the South go in peace?” To which he replied, “I can’t let them go. Who would pay for the government?” Sensing total financial ruin for the North, Lincoln waged war on the South. The South fought the War to repel Northern aggression and invasion.
MYTH – Only Southerners owned slaves.
FACT – Entirely untrue. Many Northern civilians owned slaves. Prior to, during and even after the War Of Northern Aggression.
Surprisingly, to many history impaired individuals, most Union Generals and staff had slaves to serve them! William T. Sherman had many slaves that served him until well after the war was over and did not free them until late in 1865.
U.S. Grant also had several slaves, who were only freed after the 13th amendment in December of 1865. When asked why he didn’t free his slaves earlier, Grant stated “Good help is so hard to come by these days.”
Contrarily, Confederate General Robert E. Lee freed his slaves (which he never purchased – they were inherited) in 1862!!! Lee freed his slaves several years before the war was over, and considerably earlier than his Northern counterparts. And during the fierce early days of the war when the South was obliterating the Yankee armies!
Lastly, and most importantly, why did NORTHERN States outlaw slavery only AFTER the war was over? The so-called “Emancipation Proclamation” of Lincoln only gave freedom to slaves in the SOUTH! NOT in the North! This pecksniffery even went so far as to find the state of Delaware rejecting the 13th Amendment in December of 1865 and did not ratify it (13th Amendment / free the slaves) until 1901!
MYTH – The Confederate Battle Flag represents racism today.
FACT – The Confederate Battle Flag today finds itself in the center of much controversy and hoopla going on in several states. The cry to take this flag down is unjustified. It is very important to keep in mind that the Confederate Battle Flag was simply just that. A battle flag. It was never even a National flag, so how could it have flown over a slave nation or represented slavery or racism? This myth is continued by lack of education and ignorance. Those that villify the Confederate Battle Flag are very confused about history and have jumped upon a bandwagon with loose wheels.
MYTH – The United States Flag represented freedom.
FACT – No chance. The US flag flew over a slave nation for over 85 years! The North tolerated slavery and acknowledged it as a Division Of Labor. The North made a vast fortune on slavery and it’s commodities. It wasn’t until the South decided to leave the Union that the North objected. The North knew it could not survive without the Southern money. That is the true definition of hypocrisy.
MYTH – Abraham Lincoln was the Great Emancipator.
FACT – While Lincoln has went down in history as the Great Emancipator, many would not care to hear his real thoughts on people of color. Martyred President Abraham Lincoln was fervently making plans to send all freed slaves to the jungles of Central America once the war was over. Knowing that African society would never allow the slaves to return back to Africa, Lincoln also did not want the slaves in the US. He thought the jungles of Central America would be the best solution and conducive to the freed slaves best interest. The only thing that kept this from happening, was his assassination.
MYTH – Only the North had men of color in their ranks.
FACT – Quite simply a major falsehood of history. Many blacks, both free and of their own will, joined the Confederate Army to fight for their beloved Southern home. Additionally, men of other ethnic extraction fought as well. Oriental, Mexican & Spanish men as well as Native American Indians fought with pride for the South.
Today, many men of color are members in the heritage group SCV – Sons Of Confederate Veterans. These men of color and pride rejoice in their heritage. The continued attacks on the Southern Nation, The Confederacy, and her symbols are a terrible outrage to these fine people. These attacks should be denounced with as much fervor as those who denounce the South.
MYTH – The Confederate Flags are an authorized symbol of Aryan, KKK and hate groups.
FACT – Quite the contrary. These dispicable organizations such as the KKK and Aryans have taken a hallowed piece of history, and have plagued good Southern folks and the memories of fine Confederate Soldiers that fought under the flag with their perverse agenda. IN NO WAY does the Confederate Flag represent hate or violence. Heritage groups such as the SCV battle daily the damage done to a proud nation by these hate groups. The SCV denounces all hate groups, and pridefully boast HERITAGE – NOT HATE.
there are tons of informative sites and history books out there that tell the “true” story of the civil war…do yourselves a favor and read and learn your history before you make accusations…
American by birth, southern by the grace of God..
Fugaboo, try not to be so painfully ignorant on my site if you please. For just one example:
“MYTH – The War of 1861 – 1865 was fought over slavery.
FACT – Terribly untrue. The North fought the war over money. Plain and simple.”
Sadly for you, the Vice-President of the Confederacy noted in 1861 that slavery was indeed “the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution.” Now, call me zany, but I think the VP of the CSA might know a little better than you about these things. So don’t be stupid, and don’t assume people here are stupid, either.
The problem with Confederate sympathizers is they don’t understand that they only have a couple of moves, all easily refuted, before you get their back up to the fact that the Confederacy was flat-out evil, and thus that the symbols of the Confederacy are also flat-out evil. As it happens, the post-Confederate use of Confederate symbols happens to coincide with the the Civil Rights era, so there’s a lot of happy racist crap for you right there.
The Confederacy was evil, the Confederacy is dead, and we’re all better off as Americans because of it. People who hanker for the Confederacy are either ignorant, in denial, or admire the evil it represented. Period, end of sentence.
so what about the rest of the myths and truths that i posted?? go ahead and pick them apart and tell me how stupid i am, and how ignorant i am because i posted some facts done through research of the subject…i have debated this topic many times and even wrote a paper on it in college…oh yes, i am college educated, even though i am a redneck from the south…and i happened to graduate at the head of my class and was even in the honors program in college…so that rules out the stupid part…im about as stupid as i am racist i assure you…i’ll leave you to bash me some more after this post…i find it really sad that you cant hold a debate as mature person without resorting to name calling…calling people losers, and stupid and ignorant…get a life buddy…
this post by you tells me all i need to know of what kind of person you are…obviously not a Chistian…
Should God exist (about which I am ambivalent) and should he concern himself with what we humans do (which I would doubt), I would find it unlikely he’d be pleased to find anyone justifying slavery by invoking his name.
so go ahead and believe in your evolution and all your other BS…i know one thing for certain, the people are surely a lot more polite down here in the south…we dont resort to name calling and we actually can agree to disagree on topics without acting childishly…everyone is entitled to their own opinions…they are like assholes, we all have them and most of them stink…have a great day bashing people and telling them how stupid they are for having an opinion other than that of your own…take a real man to bash people from behind a computer screen….
“so what about the rest of the myths and truths that i posted?”
(rolls eyes)
What, because if you get the big one wrong — you know, the one about the war being about slavery — you think you can still try to make up points on the little stuff? News for you, Fugaboo: When you flub the big one, the little ones are trivial. Because nothing excuses the fundamental evil of the founding of the Confederacy, or the fundamental folly of going to war to preserve the right to own people.
“everyone is entitled to their own opinions…”
But you’re not entitled to their own facts, now, are they? You clearly don’t know enough about your own history to attempt to intelligently discuss it with others, since you screwed up something as fundamental as why the CSA existed. Whining about the fact I’m telling you that you’re ignorant would be a lot more impressive if you were not, in fact, ignorant.
“have a great day bashing people and telling them how stupid they are for having an opinion other than that of your own.”
I never said you were stupid. I said you were ignorant. I can’t help you if you don’t know the difference. As for being “polite,” I’ll tell you what: I find attempts to slather ignorance all over my site incredibly impolite, and I certainly don’t feel all that bad letting you know how I feel about the incivility of your rank and pathetic ignorance.
Perhaps this will clear things up for you. Or perhaps it won’t. Either way, don’t expect me to treat your ignorance with respect. It offends me, and it offends me that you bring it into my site.
i refuse to stoop to your level of calling someone ignorant for simply trying to have a debate…again i stand by my previous post in saying that its pretty pathetic that you cannot have a discussion man to man, in a civil manner without resorting to name calling…how much more immature can one get…ah but what can i expect from a person who thinks we come from chimps, and doesnt believe in the Good Lord above…you wont have to worry about me offending you on your precious little site ever again…i wouldnt return to this pile of garbage if it were the only form of entertainment left on this earth…
i came to this site by a referral of a friend, thinking it would be a good place to have an actual discussion on this topic..obviously my friend didnt read through all of your posts or he would have never referred me to this garbage…i see however that you arent open to discussion, only on pushing your personal feelings and beliefs off on others…had you gone about debating in a civil manner, i’d have been glad to argue my point and do so with an open mind…take care and best of luck to you with your little site….
“i refuse to stoop to your level of calling someone ignorant for simply trying to have a debate…”
I’m not calling you ignorant for having a debate. I’m calling you ignorant because you have your facts wrong. I’m calling you ignorant because you are. If you don’t want to be called ignorant, then for God’s sake stop being so obviously ignorant. And if you don’t want to make that effort, then don’t be surprised and hurt when I call you ignorant.
You see, apparently unlike many people, I don’t see much value “debating” people who clearly don’t know what they’re talking about, yet wish to give the the impression that they do. I find they don’t want to “debate,” they just want to spread their ignorance like a thick, rotten jam. Surprise! I don’t play along with that. You want to spread ignorance, do it somewhere else.
It took me about two seconds to kick the main thesis of your argument out from under you, and the best you can do in response is mewl about how rude I am. Good riddance.
John,
It used to surprise me that children up North are taught, in school, that slavery was the only issue over which the War of Northern Aggression was fought. It doesn’t surprise me anymore, however; I have accepted the truth that Northern children are subjected to propaganda about the South and the Southern Cause from an early age and no one can blame them for their ignorance. You truly believe what you have written above, however ahistorical. Hey, if I believed the sole cause of the Confederacy was for slavery, I would think it was evil, too. The fact is, one of the reasons that the Confederate States seceded was because the federal government meant to outlaw slavery, an institution on which the entire economy depended. Another reason is that Northern states were fighting to pass the Morrill Tariff, the highest import tax in US history, to protect the big, inefficient manufacturing businesses in the North. The Northern manufacturers could not compete with manufacturers in England and France with whom the Southern cotton farmers traded. Once passed, the Morrill Tariff more than doubled the import tax from 20% to 47%. This served to bankrupt many Southerners. During the time the Southern states remained in the Union they paid 80% of all taxes collected by the US Government, this despite the fact that they made up only 30% of the total US population. Oppressive taxes, denial of the states rights to govern themselves on important issues such as slavery, and an unrepresentative federal government caused the Southern States to legally secede from the Union.
Now, the Southern States had left the Union and the economy of the North and all their big businesses, many owned by congressmen and friends of Lincoln himself. They were in a panic! So, the North invaded the South. The South defended itself, and there you have the War of Northern Aggression.
A few side points: If the Late Unpleasantness was about slavery only, then why did so many Southerners who did not own slaves fight? The common Southern family didn’t have enough money to own slaves. The answer is, they fought to protect their land, their families and they fought for their home states which they loved. Not for slavery.
Most historians agree that even if the South had won their independence, slavery would have been abolished in the South by the end of the century anyway.
And as others have pointed out on this site, the institution of slavery was founded in the North and under the flag of the United States of America, not the Confederate flag.
E Barrett
Charlotte, NC
“Most historians agree that even if the South had won their independence, slavery would have been abolished in the South by the end of the century anyway.”
Only 40 more years of considering humans property! Well, golly. I’m sure the extra several million human beings born into slavery would have been just fine with that. Fortunately, slavery was ended in the South quite a bit earlier than that, so there you have it.
You may discover what I think of this dumb-ass theory, and indeed the entire “states right” argument, here.
“Hey, if I believed the sole cause of the Confederacy was for slavery, I would think it was evil, too.”
How glad I am to hear you say that, because, as I’m sure you know, no less than the Vice-President of the Confederacy said of the Confederacy, that “its cornerstone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery — subordination to the superior race — is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.”
Based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. Sounds pretty unambiguously evil to me. Although I’m sure you’ll come up with another dumb-ass rationale for it, as Confederate sympathizers always do.
“And as others have pointed out on this site, the institution of slavery was founded in the North and under the flag of the United States of America, not the Confederate flag.”
Happily, it was under the flag of the United States that it ended as well.
I didn’t read the whole article, I stopped after the first couple lines because of the arrogance in the article. You like all the other retards, are the ignorant people who see a swastika and thinks it’s racist, or a maltese or iron cross and also thinks it’s racist. The rebel or confederate flag represents a way of life and heritage of people of the south. The south never said “here’s the confederate flag, We created it to represent slavery.” they created it to represent the south’s way of life. Then some group gets it (KKK) and people see it with that group and then they associate it with that group and their beliefs. The swastika is not racist it’s actually been around for 4000 years it’s a symbol of life, but the nazi took it turn it around and now you are considered a nazi if you have, wear, or associate in any kind of way with the swastika. Same way with the maltese cross it’s a symbol of protection, that’s why it’s on fire trucks. same with the iron cross, it was an award for bravery in WWI then hitler came and gave it to nazi’s and now it racist. so before you spout out this crap on the shit is racist, sit the fuck back and do some research on the subject instead of taking the general publics view on the flag and making it yours.
Ignorance can be helped of you read.
You know, James, anyone who writes “I didn’t read the whole article, I stopped after the first couple lines” but then later maintains “Ignorance can be helped if you read” is really too goddamn stupid to treat with anything less than complete and utter contempt.
On that note, since all this thread appears to do is attract morons, I’m going to close it to further comment. If you’re a Confederate sympathizer who really thinks you have something of value to say, drop me an e-mail.